Kuzma Stabi S and 4point? overkill?

In home auditions of TTs are impossible these days. Dealer demos = different TTs; also everything else is different, Only TT that has "Stood Out" was Tech Das III at Axpona. Yet again the whole system/room was different. My dealer, who I have worked with for 20yrs; tells me Tech Das IS special! And has setup a few!
I can only speak to my LP12, recently overhauled by "Tom" at Ovature Audio in Ann Arbor, MI. Sounds New!!
LP12, Ekos arm,Cirkus,Lingo, Lyra Kleos  vs Kuzma Stabi S / Stogi S12 VTA, Dynavector XX2 Mk 2.     They both play nearly together. The Linn has its "toe tapping" sound. The Kuzma has more detail, more smoothness, the 12" arm unravels complex passages with aplomb! Does not have the "toe tap" of the Linn but is "more real; more of the time"

I wanted to give this thread a bump. I'm considering a StabiS 12, which is the 12" (stretch) version of the pipe bomb, and one of the 12" Kuzma arms... Thanks in advance.

I have been using a Stabi S with the 12 inch Stogi Reference arm before upgrading to the Stabi Reference turntable. The Stabi S is a superb turntable, and it is much better than its price and appearance would suggest. I preferred it to the much more expensive AMG Viella which I owned before I bought the Stabi S.

The Stabi S with a good arm comes very, very close to the Stabi Reference at a fraction of the price, and is one of the great bargains in high end audio. It is good enough for any arm available, and is a great match for the upper end Kuzma arms (I personally prefer the Stogi Ref arms to the 4 Point).

But make sure you get the version with electronic PSU, and do not get the additional platter "upgrade", which in fact makes it sound worse.

Thanks so much rossb, just the type of feedback I was hoping for. The Kuzma line of arms were confusing initially, but I believe I'm understanding their offerings now. There are four 12" arms, which all sit above the Stogi, but below, the 4-Point. First, there is the Stogi S12, in both standard and VTA (Stogi S12 VTA) versions. Then, it goes to Ref series for the Stogi REF 313... Again, also available in VTA version. My understanding is VTA versions can fit on tables that don't necessarily have provision for 12" arms. Then of course, the Non-VTA versions would need the full 12" (or so) from armband to platter. I'm by no means an expert, but I believe that to be the general idea. rossb, I assume that you have Ref 313 arm. Is yours VTA version? Just to be clear, it is my understanding that Non-VTA versions do indeed allow VTA adjustment by means of loosening/tightening a set screw. 

I have the Ref 313 (non-VTA) arm on my Stabi S, but I also have the Ref 313 VTA on my Stabi Reference. You are correct that the VTA versions can be used on turntables which only allow for 9 inch arms.

The non-VTA versions allow for VTA adjustment the old fashioned way - loosen the grub screw, raise or lower the arm, and re-tighten the grub screw.

The 4 Point arms are theoretically higher performing arms than the Stogi Ref series. My dealer and someone else I know who has heard both thinks that the new 9 inch 4 Point 9 version is the best of them, being more dynamic than the 11 and 14 inch versions of the 4 point. Most people seem to rate the 4 Point arms very highly, but I owned  the 4 Point 9 briefly and prefer the Stogi Ref arms, and I returned the 4 Point 9 for the 313 Ref VTA, which I am very happy with. I found the 4 Point 9 to be very detailed and quick sounding, but slightly lean and lightweight. It was, as is so often the case, more about hi-fi than music. The Stogi Refs are a bit less resolving, and a bit less neutral, but have a fuller, more robust sound which I find more satisfying. If you get the opportunity to hear both the 4 Point and Stogi Ref arms, you should of course make up your own mind which you prefer.