life without audio dealers

experience at ces shows and reviewing does not give me an edge relative to others who have not had my experiences.
i do not consider myself an expert. rather i know what i want and have ears to tell when i hear it.

you don't have to be a food critic, movie critic or wine critic, for example, to be able to tell that you like something. noone can tell another what is best for that person, with the exception of a doctor or lawyer. we are dealing with aesthetics, not rocket science.

one does not have to understand why or how something works.
you need a good brain, a good ear and an understanding of what you like.

how deos a dealer help ?

he does not have your ears. no one can predict what a component will do in another stereo system based upon what it may do at a dealers stereo system.

this hobby needs more small manufacturers and fewer audio dealers. as long as there are direct sellers of every conceivable component, one has the opportunity to sample products of each category. the designer is a useful source of the nature of a component. however, a manufacturer cannot predict how a component will integrate itself in a stereo system.

there are many surprises. i may expect a silver plated copper3 cable to have a certain signature, but i have been surised.

the answer is listen, listen and listen--at home.

when i go to ces, all i can say is that i either like what i hear or do not like what i hear. i don't try to analyze.

this hobby needs more small manufacturers who offer in-home audition and less audio dealers. ket the consumer decide for him/herself without influence from a person who has a vested interest in selling something. how can such a person be objective about a product he/she doesn't sell ?

an audio dealer is a conflict of interest waiting to happen.

i have spoken to some manufacturers who prefer not to deal with retailers.

the best an audio retailer can do is lend gear at the request of the consumer, perhaps for a small fee. then the consumer can buy it direct from the manufacturer.

'you don't have to be a food critic, movie critic or wine critic, for example, to be able to tell that you like something. noone can tell another what is best for that person, with the exception of a doctor or lawyer. we are dealing with aesthetics, not rocket science.'

Personally, i agree with this statement by mrtennis. However, i have recently come to understand and believe there is a group of audiophiles who subscribe to the A. Holt theory that an 'absolute sound' is the standard equipment should aspire to, a sound that comes as close as possible to live music. This belief is the fundamental behind such absolute statements like, 'This is the best amp (speaker, CDP, etc) under $2000.' or (opens can of worms)' Analog is superior to Digital'. Indeed, until i discovered these absolutists, as i like to call them, i could never understand what drove someone to make what appeared to me, such an arrogant statement. I now believe that audiophiles are divided into two groups, the subjectivists and the absolutists. Unfortunately, every single dealer in my area falls into the absolutist camp; thereby rendering what i like or don't like secondary to their 'more expert' opinion on what sounds best. Of course, as a subjectivist, this bewilders me and makes that dealer of no use to me. Worse, it's actually torture listening to them pontificate on the various attributes of all equipment ever manufactured. i now stay far away from these audio shops.

But back to mrtennis for a second. As a reviewer, i wonder, how does he recommend a component for sound quaility, percieved by him subjectively, if he believes this:

'no one can predict what a component will do in another stereo system based upon what it may do at a dealers stereo system'

he should have added 'or at a reviewers home' to that statement i think.

There are lots of good reviewers around; I like Art Dudley a lot personally. But i would personally feel a lot more comfortable listening to a component at a dealer (or anywhere for that matter) than taking a reviewers opinion as a worthy substitute for my own ears, no offense to reiewers intended.

and again, by Mrtennis:

'an audio dealer is a conflict of interest waiting to happen.'

Harsh mrtennis, and not nessessarily accurate. A very good dealer can provide a very valuable service, possibly even commesurate to the profit margins from the 70's perpetuated still as representing good value. In order to do that, they must abandon this 'do as i say' mentality (absolutist) and adopt a relationship with the consumer that underpins a more subjective approach. But then again, the dealer is working with the vagaries and insecurites of obsessed audiophiles; he can't switch out amps and speakers all day long in what is almost always a hopeless attempt to provide a long term satisfied listener. Maybe you're right, it's useless! Just imagine a conversation like this: Phone rings, dealer answers: 'Hello mr dealer, listen, that amp you sold me last week, i was listening to this diana krall recording, and on track 6 there was some sibilance, an 's' sounded like 'sss'; it was unlistenable! Can i bring this rotten amp back and try something else?'' Maybe dealers deserve that high profit margin, having to deal with the likes of us!

a reviewer should not recommend a component. if you read my reviews, you will see that i do not recommend a compoents . i do not indicate that i either like or dislike a product. instead i report my perceptions.

there is no substite for listening with one's ears. a review should never substitute for personal preference and personal experience.

regarding the conflict of interest. it is obvious that a dealer will not suggest that a customer buy a product that he/she does not sell and may denigrate products he/she does not carry. if dealers were order takers and could obtain any product a customer wants without voicing an opinion, customers would be better off.

Mrtennis:

if dealers were order takers and could obtain any product a customer wants without voicing an opinion, customers would be better off.

Audiokinesis:

So one of the roles I see dealers playing is assisting the audiophile in that journey of self-discovery

Now there are two opinions that are poles apart. It seems to me that the first one entirely omits the educational role of the honest and knowledgeable dealer. Honest meaning, among other things, honest to himself about any conflict of interest and willing to choose the customer's interest first.

Maybe such people don't exist outside my imagination but there are posts here that suggest the contrary.

If all a dealer does is take orders, and I am a newbie, I will never get the benefit of a better-informed opinion and I will just order anything. It could take decades for me to get a system I loved, if it ever happened at all. Along the way I might get discouraged enough to drop the whole idea.

So certainly, the hobby has a place for honest BAM dealers IMHO. I think that may be true of any field at all.

Above posts bring some valid points and are very controversial in the same time.

However question remains.......
Do we as "Audiophiles" need AUDIO DEALERS.

I am talking about all levels here....., skills and knowledge. Mrtennis, you and I (and many others) could probably do with out them. But some will have a very hard time .......especially those, who do not know what they want or what sounds good (to them). Those unable to setup that new turntable and cartridge. Those that use composite and S-Video cable to hook up their HD-display.....etc.

Even seasoned audiophiles can benefit from a GOOD dealer.
The only question is how many of those are out there?????
Not too many. And maybe we......or rather industry should try a little harder to bring that gap between us and them.....(or even better audiophiles and audiophile shops with ONE goal ......better music, service and long relationship) just a little closer.

I live in New York for the past 16 years and I have to say,
it is one of the worst places to be an audiophile.
Attitude, customer relations and care is hopeless.
It isn't surprising to hear stories of many that took their business to neighboring New Jersey or even Pennsylvania where some dealers actually know what this hobby is all about and understand your needs and/or concerns.
I personally rather drive for an hour or two then deal with ANY DEALER in N.Y.
It shows you how frustrating some of us get and why the general perception towards dealers is so negative.

There is a room for improvements.......I do believe so..YES.
But it takes two to TANGO.

Cheers