Lyra Kleos vs Koetsu Urushi

Hardly ever post stuff on the net and neither do most of my audio acquaintances but .....

Urushi Wajima on several arms I have outperforms the Lyra and XV1s in my system comfortably. I never understood the criticism of soft bass etc on the Urushi. Mine slams hard and solid and is incredibly dynamic and musically fluid and less hifi'ish than those other 2. Loading on active stages around 100 ohms and with SUT, around 5 to 10 ohms. If you want to hear ridiculous midband dynamics with the Urushi, a really good SUT is the way to go. A transformer is the only way to get decent power transfer, though there may be limitations at the frequency extremes especially with inferior devices.
IMHO naturally. My audio buddies completely agree.

I know I’m late to this particular party, but....

All of these cartridges are hand made and, therefore, there will be some sample to sample variation. For example, I have an old Koetsu Black that sounds better than the several rosewood sigs and Urushi that I have tried long term. (I am very lucky in this regard, but, like acoustic guitars, sometimes you just happen to get one that is particularly sweet - those are the ones you should NEVER part with.).

That being said, it is time for the Koetsu Black to go back into suspended animation for a time (that’s how I’ve gotten it to last for ~30 years), and I have just ordered a Kleos for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that it mates perfectly with BOTH my SME IV tonearm and my preferred Cotter Mk.2L sut. Lyra EXPRESSLY recommends fixed bearing or linear trackers - so it should be no surprise to anyone if a Lyra cartridge doesn’t sound its best with a unipivot like the vpi, a fine tonearm but one which I believe was designed more for the higher compliance type cartridges that Harry Weisfeld seems to prefer.

This ain’t rocket surgery boys - and anyone spending $3k or $4k (or more) on a phono cartridge ought to at least be familiar with the basics of cartridge/arm matching, a critical factor in getting long term satisfaction from your analog rig.

That is all.

@ mulveling

I agree the Koetsu & Bob's Devices SUT combination is amazing. It's hard to imagine anything beating that paring for musicality

I have never heard any phono stage that was better sounding (with Urushi or not) than the John Curl produced Vendetta, and unlike many phono stages, it has tons of gain for anything with an output similar to the Koetsu, so no SUTs needed.  Too few made to be a realistic option for purchase but there should be a few other phono stages out there with sufficient gain.  The one I use on another system (CJ Premier 15) isn't a good choice as it lacks the gain if the Vendetta.

I do believe that you have to consider more than just gain. I tried a Lyra Cleo’s SL with a heron phono stage with I believe 74DB of gain which on paper should be more than enough. However going straight into the phono it sounded a bit polite and bland but once I ran it through an SUT into the phono it totally came alive!
I think in that instance it’s more about impedance matching.

I have a Rosewood Signature Platinum with almost no hours on after sending it to Koetsu in Japan for a rebuild . I got impatient for it to return and bought a GFS. Talk about a different flavour with the Clearaudio. I also have the Atlas and Etna SL. 

IMO you really have to move into the Platinum range with the Koetsu's in order to really hear the magic. Although I have heard Blacks sound really nice but those were produced years ago- maybe I just have not heard a modern Black do well. The RSP is a launch into the naturalness of Koetsu with a really good extension on top. It is a fabulous cartridge

In the meantime I have a Jade on the way as well. Maybe best man will win with my own personal battle of the Koetsus. We shall see.