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Marantz vs Musical Fidelity

Hello if anyone's out there. This is my first time posting so I'm not totally sure if I've done this right. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with Marantz and Musical Fidelity to be able to compare the two. I currently have both the PM8005 and the PM14-S1 and I find them to both be very enjoyable yet both have quite different characteristics. I've gone through I think 4 different pairs of speakers and this has always been the case. I've kept all other components and accessories consistent so it's not like I've been changing everything up and then I'm curious why there's no consistency or something.

The PM14-S1 is super attractive with unbelievable build quality and a very velvety wonderful sound and I love it very much. However, I feel like it lacks balls for some reason. I currently have Sonus Faber Sonetto II speakers which are 4ohm, so I know I'm drawing the full current from the amp. 

The issue is that the pm8005 is much more lively and responsive to volume changes. I can tap the volume on the remote or just slightly turn it on the unit and the volume increases very noticeably. The 14-S1 takes much more changes in the volume to be noticeable and I feel as if it doesn't play as loud or won't get as loud. This could be the volume number on the front of the 14-S1 getting into my head and me being scared of the number when I really just need to crank it up. I know the two volume styles have different circuitry and I shouldn't expect the same performance, however considering how much the pm8005 is outclassed by this big brother I guess I'm just expecting more? When I listen to a record for example, I have to turn the volume up into the -30's and that's not necessarily rocking the house or anyting either. Am I wrong to think that this is an issue? Should I be worried to turn the volume up regardless of what number is on the front?

I even shipped off the 14-S1 to be looked at and the technician contacted me and said that all of the inputs and outputs were above-average and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the amp. Maybe I need to change something else that I'm not thinking about. I'm not going to go buy thousand-dollar speaker cables but maybe I should change them. I'm using Audioquest Mackenzie interconnects to hook up my SA8005. I also have the Marantz TT-15 turntable and it's output is even worse. CDs don't necessarily come through weak, I guess I just I'm expecting more gain or presence, to use those terms.

The bottom line is that I feel like the weaker amp is stronger but there has to be a reason for this. I refuse to believe that this reference series Marantz product is out performed by a non reference series product of the same company. Because of all of this I'm considering selling the PM14-S1 and buying the Musical Fidelity M5si to see what happens. Everything I'm reading about Musical Fidelity products sounds fantastic and it seems that I would not be disappointed. But I've thought that before. If anyone has any experience with this stuff please let me know because I'm hesitant to get rid of this reference integrated if there is something else that I just simply need to tweak. If anyone knows about the difference in volume styles on my twoamps please explain those as well. Thank you for reading.
jawillia
verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio
1,499 posts
 
I find the Marantz Reference line a bit laid back. If you paired it with a brighter speaker, it probably would seem more lively. Like something from Kef. Musical Fidelity is neutral to slightly forward and will be a bit more lively. You were happier before. What speakers did you use previously?

Don’t worry about the number on the front of the amp.  It is not worth worrying about.  You should expect to have to turn the volume up more on the turntable, especially if you are using a lower out MC cartridge.  

You could switch to more forward sources. What cartridge are you using on your TT?  That might be worth changing.  That is a great CD player and it sounds like that is less of an issue.  

If ultimately you are interested I would take your Marantz on trade + cash for the M5. Save you the hassle of selling it. Personally, I would tweak though.  
nekoaudio's avatar
nekoaudio
489 posts
 
I agree with @verdantaudio that the Musical Fidelity sound is more lively than Marantz. But I also agree that you seem to be focused on the volume, and not the sound character. Just turn up the volume and as long as you're not playing so loud as to damage your hearing, or to overdrive your downstream components, it'll be fine.
jawillia OP
11 posts
 
Thanks for the replays. All of the speakers I've had have had a similar sound of being held back by the PM14-S1. I also have a pair of Bowers & Wilkins CM6 S2 with matching stands and I felt it was the same case with those. As far as the turntable goes, I would hope the cartridge would be an appropriate match considering the integrated and turntable are both Marantz reference. 

I know that I seem focused on volume, I think a better way to say it is that it seems like all of the speakers I've had are more sensitive to the PM8005. It's as if the speakers jump to attention  for the PM8005. I guess that goes in hand with  the PM14-S1 being laid back.  I guess when I think of laid-back I think of a relaxed sound not necessary a lack of umf! There also seems to be less bass with the PM14-S1, and that's with the tone controls all set the same. I guess I just feel that a product that on paper and to the touch seems to be such a beast is underwhelming while it's little brother is somehow outperforming it. I just feel like something has got to be wrong here.
auxinput
2,920 posts
 
I agree with others. Don’t pay attention to the volume "number" on the front. Each device can have different logarithmic volume curves and represent them with completely different numbers.

That being said, I can see your comments making sense. The PM14 is very nice (as is many of Marantz devices), but overall Marantz equipment is voiced warm. The PM14 may be warmer sounding than the 8005. In my experience, a warmer sounding equipment will have a much more laid back midbass/midrange. Even though the power output is there, it just does not have a visceral impact of sound. The sound will not come across with a lot of "attack" or "authority" because the slew of the waveforms are too slow. Think of this as a comparison between someone slapping you with a bare hand and someone slapping you with a ski glove on. The slap happens with the same speed. It’s just the ski glove comes across very subdued.

verdantaudio had some suggestions to tweak your system by using a different speaker (such as the bright/fast KEF) or using a different source. You can also increase the speed by using a lot of silver or silver-plated wiring (interconnects, power cords, speaker cable). This will increase the speed/attack of the warm sounding PM14, but it never ends up that great. I have worked with warm equipment in my system and have tried many things to fix that "too slow / too laid back" issue. The problem is that once it passes through a very warm/slow device, such as the Marantz, there is absolutely no way to fix that back to a "neutral" sound. It’s like putting a band aid on a problem. You are better off switching the warm device with something else.

Your comment about the speakers "jumping to attention" with the PM8005 makes sense. Even though the power is the same, equipment that is more neutral or high resolution will have a faster attack and more of that "jump to attention" factor. The sound would just be more "there" in comparison to a very warm Marantz device.

So, in my opinion, I think you should look at selling the Marantz devices and putting in a more neutral or high resolution integrated. The Music Fidelity M5si would be a good choice. It is definitely not warm sounding and actually has more power than either of your Marantz integrateds (which is good because you generally want a larger power supply). There are other choices, of course. If you sold both the PM8005 and PM14S, you might have enough to go for the larger M6si.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
auxinput
I agree with others. Don’t pay attention to the volume "number" on the front. Each device can have different logarithmic volume curves and represent them with completely different numbers.

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