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MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?

Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question :  " true " answer.

 

Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.

 

Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.

 

In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread  I remember that he was truly emphatic  posting that my MM conclusion was not  true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.

 

Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.

 

I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.

 

I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind )  MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.

 

So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.

 

I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.

 

We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges  as an " isolated " audio item and that  any of our opinions when be posible  stay in the premise: " everything the same ".

 

My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.

 

So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.

 

Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,101 posts
 

Dear @mijostyn  : Certainly that you are  happy with your answer but in true this time you are wrong. Look:

 

normally the middled of the manufacturer  VTF range is where the cartridge shows at its best and at the same time where the cartridge take care it self for the surface LP wear and that prefered manufacturer VTF value is the one used to make all kind of cartridge measures parameters it does not matters the stylus shape where in that manufacturer VTF is already took in count. The cartridge stylus shape per-sé does not defines the cartridge tracking abilities and only tells how deep/good can trace the groove modulations ( if can pick up more or less recorded information. ) but it's the cartridge compliance ( mainly lives in the cartridge kind of suspension where the designer already tooks in count the stylus shape and everything around the cantilever insluding its lenght. ) the one that defines if the cartridge can trace high, higher or to higher recorded velocities grooves and that's it

In the case of the Hyperion all happened at 2.0grs.

Your cartridge can't in anyway trace with out let in touch with the grooves at 90u

not even at 3grs-4grs. with out damaged the grooved LPsurface.

You just can't go from 10cu to 20cu only changing the VTF and with out grooves surface damage. This time and in this specific Hyperion regards you are wrong.

Look, the Excel made Etsuro Gold comes with a specially polished 80ummicroline diamond stylus shape an running at 2grs. it trace a little higher than 70u with a 10cu.

Please do it a favor and don't run your cartridge over 2.0grs

 

In the past I owned two fantastic LOMC cartridges designed by Ikeda with cantilever-less main characteristic, were the REX 9 and the 9C and where fantastic if and only if the LPdoes not comes with any high velocity recorded grooves because itsmistracking even at the manufacturer higher VTF it its VTF range: just let to stays in touch with the modulations and I had tu sold it.

R.

 

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,101 posts
 

@mijostyn : : this is my vintage Excel ES-10 LOMC cartridge:

 

and here the made it by Excel Etsuro Gold:

https://www.etsurojapan.com/product/gold

 

You can see that both cartridges share the same sapphire top plate and that's all.

My vintage design comes with lower output level, runs at lower than 1.5grs, has higher compliance and not came with the today Etsuro Super polished MicroLine stylus shape or the Etsuro diamond cantilever however the ESE-10 can track easily 90u against the little higher 70u in the today Etsuro.

 

R

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,101 posts
 

@mijostyn  : You own the 11cu MC Diamond that under real time test only runs the 70u-75u band and its Replicany stylus is 100um that's a little better than the Etsuro in that specific shape.

Look, the Etsuro Gold 20K, Hyperion 10K and the 1979 design ES-10 250 bucks.

Btw, my mistake: the Excel runs at 1.7grs.

Now, please don't misunderstood me because I know that the Etsuro Gold sounds  good and the Hyperion too but that's is not the overall issue because for those tag prices it must sounds nothing less than excellent.

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,101 posts
 

@lewm : I had not previous disagreement because I never touched the eq. RIAA but you, I posted about the cartridge FR 20hz-20khz, you have a misunderstood.

Look, that 36db separation that for you is excellent SS shows it in its site for Mono version to shines a little more but I think that you did not look very well the 3 vintage normal separation real time pictures I linked where at least 2 of them shows better than 36db in stereo fashion not Mono as SS and J.Long said the 4 vintage MC3000MK2 has over 40db and this is not normal but excellent.

Now, I can’t find out cartridge FR charts with a 2b swing 20hz-20khz as the Hyperion one. Here you can see some of those charts that all are even with lower than 1db deviation and even flat, 2 of those charts comes from the same MC A6 cartridge where Highphonic shows it’s flat all over the FR range and obviously flat from 1khz-20khz that’s the range where mainly happens the higher deviations but even there you can see the 103 by Denon 60 bucks " totally flat " in that range. No one of those cartridges has a tag price not even 1/10 of the Hyperion one that from specs is for me a measured in the mediocrity/average, yes for you is excellent;

 

Raul Iruegas (canva.com)

 

No, it’s not " off its rails " but the other way around. The right transient response and the other critical characteristics that makes a cartridge an excellent quality performer never comes at random. So and for me the information is in the " rails " and we have to understand it or learn it or confirm what we know. Tha’s all about.

R.

lewm
13,165 posts
 

I’m sorry but where do you see a claim that any mono cartridge affords stereo separation of any sort?

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