Smilin711, My deepest sympathy on the loss of your mother. I appreciate your giving us your impressions on an amazing list of state-of-the-art digital play-backs. I have one question, however: The current throne, by popular consensus, is held by Meitner, supported by the long list of people waiting for the CDSD. So, given that, and the fact that you are vague about whether what you heard was the DCC2 with the CDSD in an audio salon, not your home, (>>I think with the new transport<<), do you have any plans to audition the true Meitner combo in your home?
My Journey to Digital Nirvana Part 1
Guys, I have been sitting on the sidelines for a few days, before deciding to make any further comments. I want to digest what I have been experiencing, and to define my goal in this endeavor.
1st Goal=Accurate Digital music reproduction, as close to vinyl as possible.
Reason=I have no room, or desire, too embark on the vinyl journey. My listening space, right now has 1 rack SS for HT
1 rack Tube for 2 channel. The main speakers are being shared. I swap out interconnects.
This journey has brought me ownership, and the listening pleasure of many machines. In the past, I have made the mistake of hearing a product in a showroom, falling in love with the sound, bringing it home, and not being able to duplicate what I heard, and loved, in my own home.
I am trying ONLY to judge machines, in my home, with my system, with my ears.
I have owned these machines this year.
Denon 2900
Xindak SACD2
Eastern electric Minimax
Shanling T200C
Sony XA777ES
Exemplar 2900
APL SACD 1000
Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista
Audio Aero Capitole II
Esoteric DV-50
Exemplar 3910
APL 3910
From the best of my recollection, I have heard in my home this year.
Sony 333ES
Tjoeb w/mods
Sony 555ES
Modwright Sony DVD9000ES
There are many, many more I have auditioned in audio salons around Chicago, including the Meitner DCC2(I think with the new transport), the DCS/Elgar stack, and more.
I am trying to formulate a way in my mind to express my opinions on the machines I have heard on MY system, without suggestion that one "blows" another away. I am realizing that, in the pursuit of excellence, and when I get to a certain level of detail in an excallent machine, there are the smallest of details that make the difference. This is the reason I HAVE to listen in my system. I realize my system is evolving during, and after these auditions too. IE pre-amps, Interconnects, Power-cords, mods to my speakers, new dedicated power, conditioning, ect. All these changes have cause/effect.
Bearing this in mind, I will try to be as honest as possible, and relate what I am hearing/or heard in the past.
I definately know what I like best TODAY, plus I realize that 1 machine cannot be enough for me. I need 1 machine for 2 channel, and 1 machine for HT/Multi-channel. I like diffent flavors for each. Thus I have a big problem in determining what is best for me. Writing this is helping me think this thru, more clearly. I am taking the approach of money, not being an issue up to $20k. Any more, and I am out. This budget leaves much room. I also do not like to throw money out. I like bang for my buck, thus have fallen head over heals for audiogon, cause it provides a forum for us AUDIO crazed middle aged guys and our obsessions(yes, younger, older, women, are all included here). I have been able to sample so many fine amps, pre-amps, tubes, interconnects, digital sources, buy them, evaluate them in my home, sell them here, and still have relatively the same money to do it again.
Thank you AUDIOGON, sincerly from my heart, and WALLET.
I will answer questions on individual machines i have owned on a per question basis. I would like to tell you where my journey has ende.
JUST FOR TODAY.
For my 2 channel pleasure
I own the APL 3910
I own this machine because it gives the BEST analogue reproduction I have ever heard. It has a built in digital remote control(for my lazy ass)and sounds better without a pre-amp than with one. The redbook on ths machine is phenominal, the best I have ever heard. The 6h30 supertube give the playback a 3d sounstage that draws me into the music, without making me wnat to analyze the instruments, or vocals. I can close my eyes, pick out instruments, visualize in my minds eye where each performer is on the stage. Instrument sounds REAL, piano is piano, drums are drums, cymbals sound like symbals. The dynamics are incredible, the sounstage is layered, the sound is just REAL. I do not experience or feel any digititis. The trble is airy, the decay is natural, when playing one of my college favorites, Chuck Mangione, The Children of Sanchez, the part when the drums start, I have NEVER heard the bass drums sound so real, tight, natural, strong. I was literally brought to tears on this recording. I had to play it over and over, I am still amazed how my system sounds. This is with redbook, If this player did nothing else, I would own it. Here is the kicker. This machine plays ALL formats, and wonderfully, accurately, DVD-A, SACD, HCDC, DVD, Video, 2-channel, multi channel.
Just for today, I love this machine.
Why do I like it better that the Exemplar?
I want to start out by saying that the Exemplar 2900, made me a believer in modified digital. I had the 2900 on my HT rack for a yearand for video, and multi channel it was very good.(my 5.1 has 5 of the same speakers, my subwoofer is the SVS B4-Plus, Crown K2)But, 2-channel made my ears bleed. The Denon Sucked, sucked sucked, compared to my 2 channel. I had bought modded APL SACD 1000 from Tvad, here on audiogon and was thrilled with the SACD playback, and happy with the redbook. I was spending at least 5 hours every day various audio forums, and review sites. I read so many threads, ect my eyes started going blury. I am into horns, and was reading about the Exemplar Horns. I googled Exemplar, and came accross a thread right here on Audiogon, I believe by Tbg, about the Exemplar 2900, and John Tucker, (A wonderful nice man, and a damn rocket scientist to boot). I was so intrigued I emailed John, about the machine, and tried negotiating to order one. He told me he could not discount the Machine, I asked if there was someone local where I could hear the machine. He put me in contact of his Chicago Rep, a great guy named Ric. i drove to his home, and we compared the Exemplar 2900(without siltech)with my APL 1000. SACD was much better on my APL, but, redbook was astonishingly great on the Exemplar. I was a bit dumbfounded cause after reading the stereotimes review of this player, I thought it would best anything out there. It had done that for all other rivals. My tail went between my legs, and Nice salesman that he is, ric offered to let me bring the 2900 to my home for trial. AAhh this would be the real test.
I bought it, and at a great price. I was so exited I started telling people all who would listen about this Denon Exemplar. I could finally get rid of my HT Denon 2900 and have the EXEMPLAR 2900. I shipped my 2900 to John, and impatiently waited, mine would have all of the upgrades, I wanted it to be the best. At about the same time Alex from APL, received his custom made double dac boards with remote volume control for the APL SACD 1000, so I emailed Alex, and shipped it out for the upgrades.
Yes, I am obsessive, no?
After waiting about 3 weeks I received my Exemplar, my hands were sweating, I was breathing heavy, I tore the box open, hooked it up, but no music, the transport was fried. Very disappointed I shipped the unit back to John. Being the great guy he is, he replaced the transport, and shipped it right back. All the while I was on ebay buying E180CC's, 12AV7's, 5965's, ect, just waiting to roll some tubes. I open it up, set it up it plays music, just not the way I remember. I was on audiogon at the time and asked about this, I believe it was Tbg that wrote 250 hours to get it right. I never in my life imagined this could be true. 10 days for the unit to burn in? Why, it did not compute.
Day 10.5 WOW this machine was amazing, all was right in the world. I started on my new mission to see if this was the best machine out there. I received my APL 1000 back with the volume control, I had already determined the Exception II pre-amp bested the Thor TA 1000 mk ii, so I hooked em both up and voila. The redbook on poorer recording was much better on the Exemplar, but, the SACD was better on the APL. On better recorded cd's they were equal. Now, I was happy, I pwned the IMHO at the time best redbook with the Exemplar, and the best SACD with the APL. I was pretty happy for a while. I could not play my Grateful dead remasters on HDCD.
My friend Bill, importer of Eastern Electric had brought over his CD player for me to use while both players were being modded, and when I put my Grateful Dead cd's in his player, they sounded like SACD, they were tranformed into real music. I had to have HDCD. Thanks Bill. More on this player later, this is getting long enough, I feel like I am releasing myself here from pent up audio/mind/block.
I found that the 3910 had newer betterdacs than the 2900,and played all formats. In my research, and in my belief I had to have the Exemplar 3910, but, while I was at it, I realized I had been comparing aplles to oranges in the APL vs Exemplar, they were different machines. As my DAD always said, 2 heads are better than 1, so, I asked both John, and Alex to med me their versions of the 3910.
My fingers are starting to get tired already, but, my soul is being cleansed.
Needless to say, The 2 3910's are some of the Best digital I have heard anywhere, especially in my home in the under 15k catagory. Yes, I know I said 20k was my limit, I just have not listened to any player that expensive, YET.
NOW, how did Imake my decision?
I finally broke he Exemplar fully in, yeah I know those painful 250 hours, and had about 150 hours on the APL. I used my Exemplar Exception II Preamp connected to my Wavelength Cardinal X'1's, connected to the 2 3910's. I used my trusty ratshack spl meter to set volume(The APL has digital volume control), and started to AB these beauties. I could not believe my ears, their was not audible difference. I have been buying a lot of music recently, and intentionally duplicated MFSL's, SACD's, DVD-A's, and HDCD's.
About a week went by, I was driving myself nutz, cause I could not hear a damn difference. They both were WONDERFUL, musical, accurate, all the accolades of great music. I read AVGURU challenging the DV-50 against other players. I knew mine would be better, I just did not realize I would learn about my 3910's at AVGURUS house.
On his system I realized I loved the sound of the APLa touch more than the Exemplar, and amazing as it was, it was because of the redbbok playback. The APL was always great with SACD ect, but it was now better in redbook.
I am getting real tired, and actually need to go back to work, yeah, I know, I still need to make $$$. Gotta support my hobbies, yaknow.
Okay, real fast, with more to come later
I got back to my place, put the exemplar into the system with pre-amp, played a disc-took the 2 pieces out, plugged the APL directly into the amps, and VOILA, a bit more extension, a bit more air, a better sounstage, i stopped analyzing the instruments and vocals, I was ENJOYING the music. I felt wonderful. The difference is this, my friends. I get absolutly no feeling and urge to analyze, I enjoy my music. I could get a little fatigued with the Exemplar, it reminded me of what I remember the Meitner being. Just a tad analytical. With the APL I get everything the Exemplar has to offer, but, with more musical involvement, I am drawn in, I am not trying to get in.
1st Goal=Accurate Digital music reproduction, as close to vinyl as possible.
Reason=I have no room, or desire, too embark on the vinyl journey. My listening space, right now has 1 rack SS for HT
1 rack Tube for 2 channel. The main speakers are being shared. I swap out interconnects.
This journey has brought me ownership, and the listening pleasure of many machines. In the past, I have made the mistake of hearing a product in a showroom, falling in love with the sound, bringing it home, and not being able to duplicate what I heard, and loved, in my own home.
I am trying ONLY to judge machines, in my home, with my system, with my ears.
I have owned these machines this year.
Denon 2900
Xindak SACD2
Eastern electric Minimax
Shanling T200C
Sony XA777ES
Exemplar 2900
APL SACD 1000
Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista
Audio Aero Capitole II
Esoteric DV-50
Exemplar 3910
APL 3910
From the best of my recollection, I have heard in my home this year.
Sony 333ES
Tjoeb w/mods
Sony 555ES
Modwright Sony DVD9000ES
There are many, many more I have auditioned in audio salons around Chicago, including the Meitner DCC2(I think with the new transport), the DCS/Elgar stack, and more.
I am trying to formulate a way in my mind to express my opinions on the machines I have heard on MY system, without suggestion that one "blows" another away. I am realizing that, in the pursuit of excellence, and when I get to a certain level of detail in an excallent machine, there are the smallest of details that make the difference. This is the reason I HAVE to listen in my system. I realize my system is evolving during, and after these auditions too. IE pre-amps, Interconnects, Power-cords, mods to my speakers, new dedicated power, conditioning, ect. All these changes have cause/effect.
Bearing this in mind, I will try to be as honest as possible, and relate what I am hearing/or heard in the past.
I definately know what I like best TODAY, plus I realize that 1 machine cannot be enough for me. I need 1 machine for 2 channel, and 1 machine for HT/Multi-channel. I like diffent flavors for each. Thus I have a big problem in determining what is best for me. Writing this is helping me think this thru, more clearly. I am taking the approach of money, not being an issue up to $20k. Any more, and I am out. This budget leaves much room. I also do not like to throw money out. I like bang for my buck, thus have fallen head over heals for audiogon, cause it provides a forum for us AUDIO crazed middle aged guys and our obsessions(yes, younger, older, women, are all included here). I have been able to sample so many fine amps, pre-amps, tubes, interconnects, digital sources, buy them, evaluate them in my home, sell them here, and still have relatively the same money to do it again.
Thank you AUDIOGON, sincerly from my heart, and WALLET.
I will answer questions on individual machines i have owned on a per question basis. I would like to tell you where my journey has ende.
JUST FOR TODAY.
For my 2 channel pleasure
I own the APL 3910
I own this machine because it gives the BEST analogue reproduction I have ever heard. It has a built in digital remote control(for my lazy ass)and sounds better without a pre-amp than with one. The redbook on ths machine is phenominal, the best I have ever heard. The 6h30 supertube give the playback a 3d sounstage that draws me into the music, without making me wnat to analyze the instruments, or vocals. I can close my eyes, pick out instruments, visualize in my minds eye where each performer is on the stage. Instrument sounds REAL, piano is piano, drums are drums, cymbals sound like symbals. The dynamics are incredible, the sounstage is layered, the sound is just REAL. I do not experience or feel any digititis. The trble is airy, the decay is natural, when playing one of my college favorites, Chuck Mangione, The Children of Sanchez, the part when the drums start, I have NEVER heard the bass drums sound so real, tight, natural, strong. I was literally brought to tears on this recording. I had to play it over and over, I am still amazed how my system sounds. This is with redbook, If this player did nothing else, I would own it. Here is the kicker. This machine plays ALL formats, and wonderfully, accurately, DVD-A, SACD, HCDC, DVD, Video, 2-channel, multi channel.
Just for today, I love this machine.
Why do I like it better that the Exemplar?
I want to start out by saying that the Exemplar 2900, made me a believer in modified digital. I had the 2900 on my HT rack for a yearand for video, and multi channel it was very good.(my 5.1 has 5 of the same speakers, my subwoofer is the SVS B4-Plus, Crown K2)But, 2-channel made my ears bleed. The Denon Sucked, sucked sucked, compared to my 2 channel. I had bought modded APL SACD 1000 from Tvad, here on audiogon and was thrilled with the SACD playback, and happy with the redbook. I was spending at least 5 hours every day various audio forums, and review sites. I read so many threads, ect my eyes started going blury. I am into horns, and was reading about the Exemplar Horns. I googled Exemplar, and came accross a thread right here on Audiogon, I believe by Tbg, about the Exemplar 2900, and John Tucker, (A wonderful nice man, and a damn rocket scientist to boot). I was so intrigued I emailed John, about the machine, and tried negotiating to order one. He told me he could not discount the Machine, I asked if there was someone local where I could hear the machine. He put me in contact of his Chicago Rep, a great guy named Ric. i drove to his home, and we compared the Exemplar 2900(without siltech)with my APL 1000. SACD was much better on my APL, but, redbook was astonishingly great on the Exemplar. I was a bit dumbfounded cause after reading the stereotimes review of this player, I thought it would best anything out there. It had done that for all other rivals. My tail went between my legs, and Nice salesman that he is, ric offered to let me bring the 2900 to my home for trial. AAhh this would be the real test.
I bought it, and at a great price. I was so exited I started telling people all who would listen about this Denon Exemplar. I could finally get rid of my HT Denon 2900 and have the EXEMPLAR 2900. I shipped my 2900 to John, and impatiently waited, mine would have all of the upgrades, I wanted it to be the best. At about the same time Alex from APL, received his custom made double dac boards with remote volume control for the APL SACD 1000, so I emailed Alex, and shipped it out for the upgrades.
Yes, I am obsessive, no?
After waiting about 3 weeks I received my Exemplar, my hands were sweating, I was breathing heavy, I tore the box open, hooked it up, but no music, the transport was fried. Very disappointed I shipped the unit back to John. Being the great guy he is, he replaced the transport, and shipped it right back. All the while I was on ebay buying E180CC's, 12AV7's, 5965's, ect, just waiting to roll some tubes. I open it up, set it up it plays music, just not the way I remember. I was on audiogon at the time and asked about this, I believe it was Tbg that wrote 250 hours to get it right. I never in my life imagined this could be true. 10 days for the unit to burn in? Why, it did not compute.
Day 10.5 WOW this machine was amazing, all was right in the world. I started on my new mission to see if this was the best machine out there. I received my APL 1000 back with the volume control, I had already determined the Exception II pre-amp bested the Thor TA 1000 mk ii, so I hooked em both up and voila. The redbook on poorer recording was much better on the Exemplar, but, the SACD was better on the APL. On better recorded cd's they were equal. Now, I was happy, I pwned the IMHO at the time best redbook with the Exemplar, and the best SACD with the APL. I was pretty happy for a while. I could not play my Grateful dead remasters on HDCD.
My friend Bill, importer of Eastern Electric had brought over his CD player for me to use while both players were being modded, and when I put my Grateful Dead cd's in his player, they sounded like SACD, they were tranformed into real music. I had to have HDCD. Thanks Bill. More on this player later, this is getting long enough, I feel like I am releasing myself here from pent up audio/mind/block.
I found that the 3910 had newer betterdacs than the 2900,and played all formats. In my research, and in my belief I had to have the Exemplar 3910, but, while I was at it, I realized I had been comparing aplles to oranges in the APL vs Exemplar, they were different machines. As my DAD always said, 2 heads are better than 1, so, I asked both John, and Alex to med me their versions of the 3910.
My fingers are starting to get tired already, but, my soul is being cleansed.
Needless to say, The 2 3910's are some of the Best digital I have heard anywhere, especially in my home in the under 15k catagory. Yes, I know I said 20k was my limit, I just have not listened to any player that expensive, YET.
NOW, how did Imake my decision?
I finally broke he Exemplar fully in, yeah I know those painful 250 hours, and had about 150 hours on the APL. I used my Exemplar Exception II Preamp connected to my Wavelength Cardinal X'1's, connected to the 2 3910's. I used my trusty ratshack spl meter to set volume(The APL has digital volume control), and started to AB these beauties. I could not believe my ears, their was not audible difference. I have been buying a lot of music recently, and intentionally duplicated MFSL's, SACD's, DVD-A's, and HDCD's.
About a week went by, I was driving myself nutz, cause I could not hear a damn difference. They both were WONDERFUL, musical, accurate, all the accolades of great music. I read AVGURU challenging the DV-50 against other players. I knew mine would be better, I just did not realize I would learn about my 3910's at AVGURUS house.
On his system I realized I loved the sound of the APLa touch more than the Exemplar, and amazing as it was, it was because of the redbbok playback. The APL was always great with SACD ect, but it was now better in redbook.
I am getting real tired, and actually need to go back to work, yeah, I know, I still need to make $$$. Gotta support my hobbies, yaknow.
Okay, real fast, with more to come later
I got back to my place, put the exemplar into the system with pre-amp, played a disc-took the 2 pieces out, plugged the APL directly into the amps, and VOILA, a bit more extension, a bit more air, a better sounstage, i stopped analyzing the instruments and vocals, I was ENJOYING the music. I felt wonderful. The difference is this, my friends. I get absolutly no feeling and urge to analyze, I enjoy my music. I could get a little fatigued with the Exemplar, it reminded me of what I remember the Meitner being. Just a tad analytical. With the APL I get everything the Exemplar has to offer, but, with more musical involvement, I am drawn in, I am not trying to get in.
- ...
- 62 posts total
- 62 posts total