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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
ricevs
1,543 posts
 

Magico is NOT done to the max......

They use binding posts.....they veil the sound.....my plastic clamp system is way better. They use circuit boards for the xover.....they don’t even hardwire the parts together.....I don’t see any bypass caps on the xover. They use Mundorf wire....which is good, but even Mundorf now has better wire (copper Angelique).....they use push on connectors on the wires to the drivers.....they do not wire directly to the voice coil wires.......they do not time align the drivers....they do not use any diffraction control......Do they know about coil directivity? Are they using the coils in the sonically correct direction? (I know of no one talking about this and it makes a noticeable difference). Do they have Bybee Clarifiers on the magnets of all their drivers.....no......do they have my Music Purifiers on each driver along with my Ground Enhancers....no......

Sorry, I would fix all the above (and probably a ton of other stuff that I don’t know yet) before I said a Magico was an all out attempt at a box speaker. Yes, great drivers, great box....and good xover and execution.....that is all.......you fix everything I mention and your jaw will drop on the floor. It would kill most stock electrostats in every way. Totally tweaked electrostats? (never seen that yet)......now that is another story.

High end audio is not very tweak......the problem is there is not real race course. In hot rodding everyone knows how to get down the quarter mile the fastest.....everything is known. With audio.....very little is known and people are not sharing information.....The main problem is that every single thing you do affects the sound and most of what changes the sound CANNOT be measured.......so every manufacturer and end user is on their own to find out for themselves......what is correct and what is not. And since there are thousands of manufacturers and products and ALL of them only know a small portion of what can be known......well.....this is why every component sounds different......and why you have to spend countless hours and have super passion for finding the "most transparent" way to do something. Very few people have this one pointed passion.....whereas in hot rodding.....lots of people have this passion.....and the main reason is.......most everything is know....and shared......hot rods are incredibly simple compared to our stereo system.......so it takes a super sleuth to know anything.......

Most people who comment on forums have very little actual direct knowledge of how things work or what makes different sound..........they have limited knowledge and act like they actually know something.....and sometimes think they know everything. The ego will go to great lengths to define and defend. The trouble is, who we are is not definable........We are all one and infinite and eternal.....we are not these separate ego selves.......even our souls are part of oversouls and are really just another game we (as the oness) play.......But.......if we play the game with love and joy.....then everyone wins......we all win happiness.....which is our inherent nature.

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 

@ricevs

I find it interesting that each time i present a speaker, you take it upon yourself to point out its deficiencies..not sure if that is your way to market your business or whatever it is that you do.

I am, however, waiting to hear your criticism of the boulder 3060 , its subpar construction and cheap 350 lb chassis. When are you coming out with that episode? Or did I miss that one?

Don’t forget to also critique the rest of the system. 

Please inform us sheep how the master wants things done.

 

 

 

 

 

ricevs
1,543 posts
 

You don't have to take what I say so personally.  There is nothing wrong with you or what you are doing......in fact, you are magnificent.    I was responding to vibers saying that the Magico speaker was done all out.........and, in my opinon, it is not all out......nor is any speaker, that I know of.  I know what I know from direct experience.  I state it to inform those that want to know.  Not very many on this thread can hear what I say.....this is why I just comment once a month of so.  However, there are those few people who are interested in serious hot rodding that appreciate my direct knowledge.

I am sure the Boulder is an incredible amp.......my point is always.....that there might be a cheaper and possibly better ways to do something.  The reason you need that kind of sophisticated high power is that you are using speakers that demand it.  If you bi amped using separate woofers with eq......then you could use high powered class D (like the amps you had from viber) to power the bass and use smaller cheaper mono blocks to power high effeciency speakers .....esp full range drivers mit super tweeters....and implement them in the ways I described.  As I said.....you could get sound quality equal to your amp/speaker wire/speaker combo for less than $20K total......yes, I believe that is true.  This is why I post......maybe someone will do this and be very happy.  You can be happy with $140K amps, 40K speaker wires and $70K speakers....for sure......but you can be just as happy for $20K total........and you could lift the components.

Sheep are people who blindy follow others.  I hope that is none of you.  Do not believe anyone. Trust your own experience.......be self realized.....try things on your own......there are lots of possibilities.....way more than mentioned on this thread or on any thread........it is infinite.....and so are you.....enjoy the ride.

psnyder149's avatar
psnyder149
160 posts
 

@ricevs,

Please pack up your $20,000 (msrp + cost of Mods)ideal stereo and drive it down to Jay’s place in Florida and put it up against the Boulder/Magico system.  I’m confident Jay will entertain this challenge and post a blind, equalized, duplicate recording of the shootout.  If a poll on Jay’s you tube page results in your system sounding better, then I will pay $250 of your costs for getting there.  I wouldn’t be surprised there would be others that would pitch in if your costs are greater (I don’t know where you would be coming from).  

I think there needs to be a downside for you.  So in the unlikely event that you lose, your penalty will be recording a 10 minute video of you wearing a 3’, 2 sided placard at any large scale high end show (Axpona, Rocky Mountain, Long Beach, etc) saying:

”I’m @ricevs my name is _____ and my MOD company is _______.  I challenged the best and found my theories ‘wanting’.  In fact I’m full of poopey ideas.  If you want unbiased, reviews of truly high end audio equipment, please join Jay’s Audio Lab on YouTube.”  

This should be audibly shouted and taped for a minimum of 10 minutes then posted by yourself and copies sent to Jay and anyone else he wants to include.

Any other takers willing to pitch in a few bucks for @ricevs in the case of a win?

grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,479 posts
 

To Jay and other Agon readers here. I learned several years ago that both the power cord and DC power cable matter big time on linear power supplies. Don’t forget those DC cables carrying 5-19 vdc to your switch and such. They can make as big of a difference as the power cord! Your DC cables should be double shielded and use the best quality silver or copper conductors as well as high quality connectors such as the ones from Oyaide.

Jay, I highly recommend you place a Network Acoustics Muon filter after your switch going into your server. It is passive so no need to plug it in! It will also confound you with the sonic improvements. Here is a link to Network Acoustics. I use the Muon ethernet cable and filter after my audiophile switch. A must for you to look into. You will be smiling and once again shaking your head in amazement. They offer a trial period and ship these out to you using 1 or 2 day express.

https://www.networkacoustics.com

 

Every single thing matters in digital audio front ends. Cleaning up electrical noise and EMI/RFI before your server is vitally important to SOTA realism.

 

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