Need to re-discover analog - please help

Springbok, as I think I mentioned earlier, a MC cartridge has an inherently balanced output due to its electro-mechanical design configuration. What a pity to stifle its output (to say nothing about losing the advantage of better noise and hum rejection) by running it through single ended interconnects and phono preamp when you have such a marvelous balanced amp and preamp already.

Especially With a system like yours, the source is truly everything. Skimp on the TT, the TA, and finally (for now anyway) even the cartridge, if you have to, but invest in a great (probably expensive) balanced phono preamp.

Nsgarch,
I presume the Manley, ($7.3K) Tom Evans Groove ($3.6K) and EAR 324 ($3.6K) are all balanced? Why, if this is so crucial, do dealers tell me that they hardly sell any balanced units as phono stages? Is this not true? I am not arguing, since I have zero experience or factual basis to argue, but obviously seek information, and, looking at your system, you are eminently qualified to give it! The Atma-Sphere MP-1 can handle over 0.3mV without a transformer and Ralph's phono stage has a good reputation, although the reviews on the ones you mention (+ the Whest) are really stellar. I have always believed in having balanced sources, since the strength of Atma-Sphere is the fully balanced set-up, but get told by numerous dealers that it doesnt make any difference (to their ears) in using single-ended, eg Whest, phono stages. Of course, naturally, it may be that those I spoke to sell single-ended designs. Comment?

Per Opalchips comment concerning 98% of the differences people think they hear from turntables"-

I have a Scout and a Garrard 301 both setup with the same arm, the same cart on the exact same isolation playing into the same pre, power and speakers. Currently both are playing Neil Young's Harvest.

FYI-the Garrard is new to me (1 week here), and I have been putting it through it's courses. It's just coincidence I happened to come across Opalchips comment and am in a position to put it to the test.

The difference between the two is no small matter. Nor is it something only the most critical listener would identify easily. I will not get into qualitative differences here; but I will say the differences in tonality, imaging, soundstaging and all that audiophile mumbo jumbo are absolutely startling.

I think it bears mentioning that precious few tables "spin at a constant speed and impart no (or virtually no) vibration to the lp"

Springbok10, I do not have all the history at my fingertips but it took a long time for home audio to adopt what the pro world (of necessity due to long cable runs) had used for years. The longstanding prevalence of single ended connection probably had somthing to do with the dominance of a few manufacturers (RCA? connectors) in the early home entertainment industry of the 50's.

The market for phono equipment dropped off drastically after the introduction of CD's in the early eighties. Many of the turntables of that time even came with hardwired RCA phono cables installed! All this was a good 10+ years before the home audio industry began offering balanced connections -- at first just on the better brands like Audio Research, Mark Levinson, etc.

Nobody was really paying much attention to developing new and better phono preamps until (relatively) recently. And let's face it, it's a small market at best. That means that a.) the prices are going to be disproportionately high due to so few units sold, and b.) manufacturers want to capture the largest number of potential customers in that already small market. Since most of the market (still) owns single ended equipment, the designs being produced are largely single ended. But I see that beginning to change.

As for the ones you mention, I honestly don't remember. I'm pretty sure the Manley does, but what you mainly get for all that extra money is a versatility that you probably won't require, since you're only going to be using one cartridge (I presume?) I'm certain the Audio Research phono preamp offers balanced ins and outs (and don't discount that one, it's supposedly pretty terrific -- but that's just what I read, I haven't heard their latest).

If I didn't have my beloved ML 25S, I might consider a tube unit for my all SS system. In your case, as I mentioned earlier, I think a great SS unit (like the TE Groove+) would compliment your system beautifully. Additionally, it could be left running all the time, which for that kind of device guarantees performance stability. Of course, you could leave a tube phono preamp on 24/7 but you don't need that!

The Whest has gotten great press, but like new computer software, I won't buy an audio component until it's been in the market a couple of years. (No beta-testing for me!) I'm also no fan of the battery powered units. Not because they're battery powered -- that's a great idea -- but rather because the production cost savings gained by the elimination of the power supply have apparently not (yet) gone into making a top notch battery powered phono preamp, if you get my drift . . . . . . . . . . .

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Nsgarch brings up a topic I've wondered about. Certainly with true balanced operation a phono stage would enjoy a lower noise floor; at least theoretically. In practice, and only because I've been lucky enough to listen locally to a variety of great phono stages in a world class system, I doubt that the benefits will matter. Of course, I've been wrong before. It's just that having listened as extensively as I have it's getting difficult to believe things will get significantly better. Silent is silent and that's what I'm hearing from almost every great phono stage I've heard. It's like asking how black can black get. Thanks for bringing this up Nsgarch as it's interesting.