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People who are Irrationally Afraid of tube amps

Recently I've had a tube amp For Sale on this site. It's a well respected, great amp from a major mfg. I've owned it for 3 years, with absolutely no problems, only enjoyment. I'm only selling it because I sold the speakers I used it with, & my current speakers are a lot more power-hungry. And it's the 2nd tube amp I've owned, my first being a really early model VTL ST-85 that was several years old when I bought it, then I had it for 5 years, & the only problem I had in all that time was replacing a fuse once. And I know almost nothing about electronics, but I learned how to use a multi-meter & successfully biased & replaced tubes in both amps.

Here's the thing: Almost every person who has written to me about my amp for sale asks a zillion questions, you know the routine, e-mails back & forth, then finally says they are too freaked out at the possibility of replacing tubes someday to buy it, whining about the (relatively modest) expense, etc. (And my amp has new tubes!!). Now, these queries are from presumably experienced A'goners because most of them have a large no. of positive feedback ratings here. I mean, we're not dealing with the average shopper at Circuit City, presumably.

My questions are: 1. Why do experienced A'goners waste so much time shopping for tube gear if they're freaked out over the potential traumatic effect that replacing tubes may have on them someday? There's plenty of SS gear FS if that's what they want. 2. Why do many even relatively experienced audiophiles still believe in the "tube hassles" myth? 3. Are there no tube afficiandos who are willing to put up with a minor inconvience every few years?

I feel like putting a warning in the next ad I run for a tube amp: WARNING: THIS DEVICE CONTAINS HIGHLY VOLATILE "TUBES", WHICH MAY BLOW AT ANY SECOND & COULD DESTROY YOUR ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD! USE AT YOUR OWN PERIL, PREFERABLY IN A NON-POPULATED AREA. EVEN IF THEY DON'T KILL YOU, THE TRAUMA OF REPLACING THE "TUBES" SOMEDAY COULD REQUIRE YEARS OF PSYCHOTHERAPY, & MAY BANKRUPT YOU & YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY.

Well, at least that might discourage the "tire kickers". Now, if I could just afford those Cary 805C mono-blocs I've been wanting for years........& thanks for listening to my rant!
steveaudio
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
Johnk...It has long been recognized that the fact that tube amplifiers characteristly produce even harmonics, and that even harmonics are typically part of musical instrument sounds, makes their distortion relatively unobjectionable. A violin, for example, might sound not like itself, but still very much like a violin: just one made by a different craftsman and having different harmonic structure. The unmusical harmonics produced by transistor amplifiers require that distortion be at a low level, and it generally is. If so it is inaudible. Both amps can sound good, but the transistor amp sounds like the real violin and the tube amp sounds like a different violin, and the difference will be a richer harmonic structure which gives a lush sound that many people find enjoyable.

Allanbhaganinfo...I'm in western Massachusetts. Are there any Berning dealers? Anywhere?
allanbhaganinfo
121 posts
 
Johnk, you maybe right if you sum all amps that have tubes into one category but the Berning is different animal all together, what we assume is tube coloration is really transformer coloration.

David Berning has done presentations to other physicists where he shows that tubes can react as fast as SS devices, however the problem is, we are somewhat stuck in the past with the designs of tube equipment and as audiophiles we too want big heavy SUV type amps in our homes, we relate weight and size to quality and sound, so how good can a ten pound amp sound.
Well we have put this amp up against some very big competition, many SS stuff, in front of a lot of people, guys from the Chicago audio society, manufacturers and engineers, all with the same startling results, so maybe there is a exception to the rule that all tube amps are the same, maybe you just need to hear this amp.

There are several speaker companies using the ZH-270 as their design reference, Merlin, Sonus Faber, Cain&Cain, as well, there are Berning amps in recording studios.

Down Side, due to the complexity and manufacturing time of the amp, less than two dozen are made a year, currently sold out until January-February next year and probably a dozen people or more in the wings waiting for a used one to pop up.

I will try an see if I can get you an audition but I know of no one in your area.
Do you travel anywhere?
84audio
175 posts
 
Wow!!! Guys, we are making this a lot more complicated than it is. It's ok if you like SS gear. I think tubes are clearly a better value for dollar investment. I would challenge you to find something that sounds better than the Berning at it's price point. Biasing amps is something I have no interest in doing. I had a Sonic Frontiers tube amp that was more trouble than it was worth so I went back to solid state until I found the Berning.

Preamps are a different story. I challenge anybody to find a better value than the Eastern Electric Minimax, or the Belles 21A at those price points. I think you clearly get more "bang for buck" with a tube preamp. It's just my opinion, I'm not interested in converting anyone. I would respectfully suggest more listening and les hang ups about specs. I have had tube preamps in my home from CJ, SF, Thor, Rogue, Belles, Eastern Electric, and Essence over the last 15 years with absolutely no tube problems or issues. If you like Ss better that's fine. The whole point of this hobby is to have fun. thanks
lrsky
1,118 posts
 
Irrational fears, phobias? This is a hobby, like 84 said.
When I first discovered tubes, I was truly mystified, at their spaciousness, and sweet sound. Then after many years I vascilated back and forth. At one time it was all tubes, amp and pre. Then I was a steadfast Tube pre, and solid amp.
What most people fail to realize is that all amps and preamps interact differently as pairs. What works with one system simply does not sound good with another. Plus room accoustices, cables and on and on. With the variables that exist the sound differentials are infinite.
As to irrational fears. I have had problems with tubes...and solid state. Actually its about even. Tubes, like light bulbs have a known life expectancy, but so do transistors; its just that nobody talks about that. Buy what sounds good, and listen to music. Its fun, don't make it so complex and confrontational.
Oops, I have to go, I think I just heard a capacitor explode.
Good listening.
Larry
tubegroover
2,320 posts
 
Eldartford if one is searching for true fidelity it is only in the concert hall. I do agree with you that most but not all tube designs STILL euphonize or bloat the sound at an absolute level when comparing to the real thing but I think there is a bit more to it. It is not just the tonality of instruments as you suggest but also the dynamic swings and fine low level nuance, the breathing of the instruments that help recreate the illusion. This is an area where tubes seem to excel over SS but as you rightly point out often with too much exaggeration of the harmonics. It can be fun listening but when you go to a concert and hear the real thing it is obvious that it isn't quite right.

My litmus test when listening is the piano which I find the most difficult instrument to reproduce accurately. Getting the harmonic overtones, natural tonality without the bloat along with realistic dynamic shifts and air around the notes without it becoming too full or too thin is tough for audio systems to get right. I spent 5 weeks listening to a highly regarded Class A OTL tube amp of comparable power in comparing directly with the zh270. Where both excelled was in that elusive presence area or ability to recreate the life and immediacy of the music. The Class A amp had an ability to get you more emotionally involved, richer harmonics. The Berning didn't have the fullness or the expanse of the soundstage but in most respects seemed more accurate. Which is better? It really depends on what one is trying to achieve, both were enjoyable but the Class A with zero feedback was probably more so, more of the goose bump factor which is not measurable unfortunately. Which one was more accurate and closer to the fidelity of the recording? The Berning without a doubt. It has to my ears the virtues of both SS and tubes with less of the limitations of either. It has the tonality, the presence and the immediacy. Some will still love traditional tube designs, myself included, for the sheer pleasure they give but now there is another choice, especially for those afraid of tubes
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