Powered speakers show audiophiles are confused


17 of 23 speakers in my studio and home theater systems are internally powered. My studio system is all Genelec and sounds very accurate. I know the best new concert and studio speakers are internally powered there are great technical reasons to design a speaker and an amp synergistically, this concept is much more important to sound quality than the vibration systems we often buy. How can an audiophile justify a vibration system of any sort with this in mind.

128x128donavabdear

You wrote ".. a real horn loaded speaker at 20Hz," and I’m telling you a 20cf. quarter wave tapped horn with a tune a ~22Hz will do honest and proper 20Hz - period. What isn’t proper is asking a smaller size, lower eff. direct radiator doing the same, even with a surplus of power. And horn sub iterations can be in multiples as well.

The realities of path length and flare angle means that for a practical sub-woofer, a vented box will always have the advantage at the lowest octaves. The horn is significantly more efficiency at higher bass, but at the deepest, it is not. If you are recreating the Saturn V, you need the energy at the lowest frequencies, 20Hz and below. You are better off vented. For pure music, you don't have a lot below 40Hz and dropping quick, horn is great for a sub. I realized the Saturn V was both hyperbole, but also representational. You want to recreate life's audible events.

 

A pair of corner placed (i.e.: with boundary gain) high eff. tapped horn subs and high eff. pro cinema main speakers with a combined 2.3kW actively per channel can shell out +125dB’s at the LP (~11ft. listening distance), full-range, so backwards math gives an easy 105dB’s with +20dB’s of headroom - within my actual required range.

That's fair. Essentially rock concert level, somewhat close to the stage.

I am glad you don't listen to it regular. As much as I love live music, I don't say yes to the frequent invites I get any more for amplified events and even for the last long while, I have generally enjoyed with ear plugs. I take enough of a "hit" professionally. Have to respect your ears.

 

The clean (and full-range) dynamic bandwidth not least comes in handy with Blu-ray/4K UHD playback of movies.

@donavabdear can comment on this better, but the target playback levels, we could call it the intended levels, are far below what your system is capable of.

 

10th row with a large symphony orchestra during tutties? I’d say 105-110dB’s.

10 seats out, 105 would be the max, and usually lower. If you were up on the stage, it could hit 120 with some pieces having extended 110db+ sections. This is starting to become a big issue, starting initially in Europe. Due to the amount of practicing, the musicians total exposure can be at ear damaging levels, especially in the brass section, even worse than percussion though percussion can have higher peaks. Lots of talk w.r.t. regulation, creating practice spaces with more distance between performers, positional changes to reduce total exposure, etc.

 

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@thespeakerdude what is your view on the damage the internal vibration inflicts on the amp fidelity in active speaker designs? Have you ever tested this. 

Yes to test. For a DSP based crossover, virtually non existent. There is nothing anywhere in the system that a signal passes through a capacitor which can be susceptible. Weak potential analog signal level crossover, but that is mainly a component selection issue. We use a soft silicone encapsulation in some areas in some speakers and our electronics are not open to the interior, but that is as much for reliability. If the speaker is cranking 100db, the distortion is probably already climbing, and the simply large levels mask anything low level, if it was happening. I can't go into details of testing, but as you would expect, multi-tone stimulus comes into play, a tone that could perhaps resonate something on the boards, and then a second reference tone(s), with both of them monitored.

 

@kingharold How did you get into active horn speakers? I would love to hear some not PA horn speakers. I think Im going to go to the audiophile event in Illinois in the spring, hopefully there will be some there.

 

@donavabdear Last year's AXPONA had Avantgarde playing their Trio model fully active w/sub......amazing....must audition.....SPENDY! Hope it is there this spring. I never cared for the sound of horns in general until hearing that system as well as the Aries Cerat Aurora (half spendy) last year. Listened to the Trio in years past in passive version.....no thank you. Good topic. There are many audio enthusiasts out here/there that are not confused about this topic but choose not to post because most of these things turn into goofy imbroglios rather quickly.

@kingharold Hello fellow DEQX enthusiast (homebrew 3-way open baffle D'Appolito array)! Lovely system you have there.

@kota1 Not looking for the big trophy, just a participation certificate (3"x5" cardstock) or maybe just an "Attaboy!" 7.2.4 theater all active. 🤣

Shout out to @phusis I Enjoy/appreciate your posts.