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PrimaLuna Dialog 2 User Review

There are not many user reviews for the PrimaLuna Dialog 2 integrated amplifier online so I offer this perspective for those that may be considering this integrated.

First Things First.

My equipment:

- B&W CM9 Full range speakers
- NAD T775 receiver (doing duty as the DAC)
- Samsung BluRay player (nothing special, HDMI output)
- LogiTech Squeezebox (coax output)
- Dialog 2 (Of course)

My taste in music:

Rock and alternative, heavy is preferred. My playlists include the likes of Volbeat, Halestorm, GreenDay, LinkinPark, Offspring, DragonForce, Coheed and Cambria.

What I do not listen to: Classical, Jazz, Easy listening, country.

Source Music Quality:

CD, DVD Audio (Rush-Moving Pictures), MP4A, AIFF, 24/92 from HDTracks.

* I was new to tubes with this amplifier.

Unpacking it:

The first thing you will notice about the Dialog 2 is that it is bloody heavy, it does weigh every bit of that 70+ pound shipping weight. It comes double boxed. Upon opening you will find the "white gloves" at the top layer for tube wrangling later on.

The dialog 2 is built like a tank (see my comment about its weight). PrimaLuna encourages you to open it up and take a look at the workmanship internally, I did, it is very tidy in there.

The remote is built from machined aluminum, it is hefty and in a pinch could be used for home defense. Opening up the remote (as you will have to do to change batteries) reveals cheap Chinese internals, my first remote arrived with the buttons running around inside the remote. The remote has rubber O-rings around each end to save your furniture from being damaged, expect to visit the hardware store yearly to replace these as they degrade quickly, especially if left in a sunny spot.

The Amplifier comes with the tubes (PrimaLuna branded KT-88) installed and all you have to do to get it going is remove the sleeves surrounding the tubes, wrangle the protectors off the single ended RCA style connector for the source of your choice (they are on there tight!), add power and speakers and you are in business.

Operation:

The amplifier is simple enough to use, turn it on, wait for the tubes to warm up and you'll be listening to music in 15-30 seconds. During the warm up period none of the functions work, so you can't select your source until the amplifier is ready to go.

The amplifier offers a Home Theater pass through source selection, this source by-passes the pre-amplifier section (12AX7 and 12AU7 tubes) and feeds straight to the power amplifier section. My thoughts on this feature; as you have to physically turn the amplifier on you will be up there waiting for the amplifier to warm up and listening to the wife complain because it doesn't respond to a remote control. Sure the HT pass through helps it fit in with the home theater but it still needs special attention, some thing the wife will let you hear about.

The sound:

This was my first foray into tube amplifiers, I was left dazed and confused!

From the beginning the Dialog presented very clear and focused vocals and well controlled bass, I kept waiting for the "full midrange" that tubes are said to have to kick in as the tubes burned in, I never found the full sound I was looking for.

I found the high frequencies to be sharp and hash, several songs I listened to, Coheed and Cambria's "welcome home" for example were so harsh I was sent running for the remote to turn down the volume.

Another sensation I experienced with this amplifier was no matter what the volume was set at, I always felt like if I just turned the volume up a little more I might find the sound I was looking for, I never did. In most cases after thirty minutes of listening I felt fatigued and would walk away from it.

I did try EL-34 tubes in it, the EL-34's seemed to move the frequency response up a little bit, I still had harsh high frequencys, the bass response was tight but reduced a little and the mid range seemed to respond a little more but not what I was looking for. Changing out the 12AX7 pre-amp tube did not make a significant difference either.

I did use the Demo download from HDTracks that has a couple of classical tracks included, the amplifier did well with these.

Customer Support:

A quick email to the PrimaLuna-USA website may or may not yield a response. If you complain in the right places you will probably end up talking to either or both of the two main people in the company, Herman in Holland and Kevin in the USA, what other company, hi-fi or otherwise can you say that about?

My dealer was as helpful as they could be but they had no one knowledgeable in tubes, trying to make a decision about which tubes would meet my musical tastes was frustrating to say the least.

Summary:

To be fair, I am not the audiophiles audiophile, both my equipment and music/quality tastes and choices probably did not showcase this amplifier in its best light.

The Dialog 2 is very well built and with care should last a lifetime, although I have my doubts about the longevity of the remotes internals. From my limited experiences the PrimaLuna KT-88 tubes seem to be of similar quality to most of the new manufacture tubes available on the market. One of my KT-88's burned out at about eight months, they are warranted for six months ...

For a heavy rock and roller with average source material I found the sound to be harsh and fatiguing and generally lacking in the fullness (low-mid range?), what it lacked in "fullness" it offset with razor sharp vocals (I don't know what range contributes to this but it was there). The bass is very tight and controlled. I imagine that this amplifier is much better suited to Jazz and Classical.

The home theater pass through lets you use the Dialog 2 as part of a home theater, I found this function to be of limited value as I always had to travel physically to the amplifier to turn it off and on.

If you are a newby to tubes definately take a demo model home before you commit, if the sound is not what you are looking for you will be on your own "tube rolling" to get that sound unless of course your dealer has some very experienced people on staff. Tube rolling my be fun when you are feeling experimental, when you are looking for a certain sound, the lack of information on the sound qualities of various tubes make it just expensive and frustrating.

So how did I finally get the sound I was looking for? My dealer let me trade the Dialog 2 for a SimAudio product and I've never been happier.
aussiejetpilot
devilboy
1,176 posts
 
Likewise to everything you said, Mikirob. I hear great things of the Eastern Electric DAC and Shugang Black treasures...apparently wonderful tubes. Does your Primaluna office system use the volume control on the EE DAC, or is the PL an integrated? I'm assuming it's integrated since you are considering the Metrum. I love the Metrum. The closest competition I've had to the Metrum in my system was the Weiss Minerva. In regards to the Metrum, the Minvera sounded more like hifi, while the Metrum sounds more like music...natural and organic, while the Minerva kind of "exaggerated" more of the highs and lows. Given the cost of the Metrum, it is an absolute steal IMO. Hope this helps.

Back to the OP: Given your taste in music,(and because of that taste I assume you like to crank it every once in a while), have you considered a higher current, solid state amp? What about digital? With the frequency in which Nuforce upgrades their amps, you could get a pair of monoblocks pretty cheap here. I know because I got spanked pretty good when I sold mine. :^( This approach may be more of what your requirements call for. Just my opinion. Good luck!
aussiejetpilot OP
3 posts
 
@Rlwainwright
Thanks for your comments. Although in theory a perfect device would not color the sound I think we can all agree that the perfect electronic device is yet to be created.

@Mikirob
You sound like an experienced tube user and knew exactly what you wanted to do with your amplifier. I'm sure that if I had your expertise I would have had a more favorable result. I do agree that my ancillary equipment may have been a contributing factor but I took the amplifier back to the dealer and used their ancillary equipment several times. The Wadia 121 digital computer has been a recent addition, not recent enough to be of any value in this review.

@Musicpod
I had the amp about 14 months.

@Devilboy
Although I respect your opinion I never held myself out to be an experienced tube user nor was my review pitched to esoteric users. In my search for the right tube I spoke with Kevin Deal several times, I spoke with several other tube retailers, I worked through my dealer and their resources, I spoke with an electrical engineer, I searched the web many times looking for user and other recommendations for this amplifier, obviously I never found the website that you refer to.

Guys like you and Mikirob seem very experienced in the world of tubes and if I had known you personally you probably would have had me setup in no time. A 38 watt tube amplifier on those speakers ... well blame my dealer for letting me get away with that setup if it is indeed a poor combination, I wanted a NAD M3, he talked/demo'd me around to the PL.

My review was to give guys like me, pending newcomers to the world of tubes, just one more perspective to aid in their journey. I disagree that this review is irrelevant, it is merely of limited use to an experienced user.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Devilboy, the Primaluna is integrated, I bought the Eastern Electric before its latest incarnation and have not swapped out the op amps as many folks are doing; it's reported to be more analogue-like. I'm happy as it is now, but the Metrum intrigues me as it is described by A'gon member articles I have read.

Aussiejetpilot: as I stated in my original reply to you I believe what you heard was mismatched ancillary equipment such as the blue ray player, your cabling and so forth. Efficient, high impedance speakers, a decent DAC, good transport, better cable would allow great head-banging sound with the Primaluna Dialogue 2. The Primaluna EL 34s in my Dialogue 1, after break-in are sweet, smooth, detailed and extended, not thin, the mids are very good. Yes, I like some other tubes better, but could easily live with the stock output tubes. I don't much care for the stock input and driver tubes and they do make a significant difference in performance...Sorry that you did not find the right synergy.

Just for some kicks and variation I'm going to install some KT 88s as well as the stock KT 66s that came in my Cary V12 to hear how they perform? This ability of the Primaluna product to take so many different tubes combined with the adapive auto bias make them a bottle head Godsend. You should be able to dial in what you like. The problems you had is not inherent in this amp

Kevin Deal is one of the best audio guys in the business; he is one of the best tube guru's with vast knowledge. I believe your dealer really let you down.
devilboy
1,176 posts
 
Aussie: I never meant that your "review was irrelevant", as you said. Looking back on my earlier posts, it seems my opening statement was a bit misleading. What I meant by "seriously", was someone new to a PL amp, thinking it was a bad amp. In your defense, you did write that, "To be fair, I am not the audiophiles audiophile, both my equipment and music/quality tastes and choices probably did not showcase this amplifier in its best light". So in retrospect, I regret writing that first line. I apologize. However your dealer, in my opinion, made a poor recommendation.
devilboy
1,176 posts
 
Also, as Mikirob said, the KT88 may be the way to go.
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