Question for cable/wire naysayers.....


For those who state that cables don't make a difference...... are you saying that all cables sound the same?  If not, what are you saying?   I've experimented with many different brands and materials and I can't possibly believe that those naysayers hear no differences.   And if the science says that the cables should sound the same, a simple experiment (listening!!!) should prove otherwise.  Or, are these naysayers not listening for changes in resolution, soundstaging/imaging, coherence.....and so on between cables?  Please elaborate on what you are NOT hearing and feel free to drop names.  What cables have you compared that didn't sound different?   I've just gotta know.  I'm floored every time I see a post or response in which cables are called snake oil or something comparable.  Please enlighten me......Thanks.
lcherepkai
My perspective is this: there are two separate arguments here, using the same words, and people keep talking past one another.

Many people seem to be against cables because of two main things: high (absurd) prices and crazy, hyperbolic marketing copy from manufacturers. This is often the main knock against cables, once you get through all the posturing and 'electrical engineering' junk.

Those that are for them can often come from the opposite perspective: spending money on something means it's good. More money means more good. And then the idea that if it's a professionally made, special cable, it has to sound good, so they listen, hear a difference, and start spouting ad copy.

I'm too cheap to spend good money on stuff I can make myself. So I experiment and have heard the differences in different architectures and materials while not being too attached to whatever I'm using. If I see a better idea or better materials that aren't stupid expensive, I'll try it and see..

Many naysayers walk in with a contrarian attitude, reacting to silly prices and hyperbole. Many supporters aren't critical enough of what they're hearing or separating cost from performance.

And then the are many like me, who are just curious and play around, keeping an open mind and not getting too wrapped up in marketing or prices. But our middle of the road view, that can accept the truths from both sides while dispensing with their absolutism, is mostly unheard because of the shouting from the fringes.

Huh, does that sound like anything else going on in our world right now?
devilboyIf you truly want to hear what your amplifier sounds like, the most logical approach would be to have speaker wire that is exactly the same wire that goes to your amp’s binding posts
That's not logical at all, because the length of a cable has a lot to do with its characteristics, including resistance. You'll want a much heavier gauge cable for your 10-foot amplifier-to-speaker cable than you'd need for the few inches of cable that's inside your amplifier.

Also, the same wire should go from your speaker’s binding posts to its drivers.
Again, this does not make much sense. In a typical speaker with a passive crossover, the cable going to each driver only sees a fraction of the total current that is at the output of the amplifier.

And as an FYI, some speaker systems do use quite high quality internal wiring.
I always think of the responses in threads where ’nay sayers’ erupt, as being the outlier, the minimal, like 1 or 2 or 4 voices in a crowd of hundreds.

Which is true.

the reality is, if you get all the readers of a given thread in a room, there would be hundreds of them. Hundreds.

Then, in that room, 2-3-5-6 people ’disagree’. Some start shouting and waving their arms around, throwing anger and vitriol at all the other people in the room, throwing it at the silent majority of ~hundreds~.

So when you look at the naysayers who spend their lives keeping the threads alive with their disagreements, look at the number of views of the thread and you can calculate, to a certain degree.... that you are dealing with a ~totally dismissable~ extremely small minority of those few who won’t back down on their extreme minority viewpoint.

They don’t truly realize they are in a room of hundreds of people who feel differently, hundreds of people who don’t feel the need to engage them.

the naysayers do not have a strong viewpoint for the majority or masses.

They just have a keyboard and an unwillingness to back down. All they a have to do is wake up and look around the room (’forum thread room’ full of viewers/readers). They are surrounded by hundreds of silent people who feel and know otherwise.

I engage them at times, simply due to the fact that the silent majority is also generally not noting that the few naysayers do not have a real functional position that the majority is interested in dealing with or taking on. That the majority of silent readers of the given thread to not realize they are dealing with very minor outliers.

And that, in a nutshell, is the nature of these ongoing war like threads.

The silent majority of hundreds to low thousands, is not visible to the eyes as a physical presence. But they are most definitely there.

think about it. Think of the given thread being a room of 400 people, meeting, and having a discussion. Four people keep disputing it and trying to tear down the meeting itself.. to tear down the intent and meaning of the meeting. Refusal to stop, means they would be ejected from the meeting or removed by force if necessary. The forum is this sort of large hall meeting, but done through keyboards. See it for what it is.
Funny that you talk about the silent majority (remember who introduced the term?). Anyhow, science is not decided by votes but by facts.
Well, I’ll be kind and take your comment as being not fully fleshed out, and not be inflamed via the holes that can be fleshed out by me and used to insense myself.

Which your two line post is chock full of. We have to be careful to not make the kind of incomplete statements we can get away with in person, as the the back and forth can take place in seconds and also has our own particular physical presence to help mitigate misunderstanding.

The implication is, put in the effort, leave the emotions at home in a box and do it right. Or stay home. whic is aimed at all, no specific person. Avoid the self inflammation and also avoid the inflammation tactic. Which is how the internet forums grew up, sadly. Heck, things like reddit are based on inflaming and baiting. Tis’ a sad sack of effluent, at best.

Problem is, I can do it right all day long, but some jack will run up behind me or another given person who is trying to do it right and run them through with some short curt written sword of some sort, one that has nothing do do with handling the subject properly or in the vein of a communication that resolves the points at hand.

Points which are incredibly unlikely to be resolved in print -- at the best of times.

Put two opposed viewpoints into a thread on a forum and you are looking at the law of diminishing returns taken to heretofore unknown levels of pointlessness. Which is how the barbs and viciousness gain a foothold.

So,
-pointless barbs and viciousness,
-arguments that cannot be won,
-small minority of unyielding handwavers
-a large room built out of a silent majority

Saving forums and building them up to high levels of participation involves dealing with the small minority of itinerant punchers and kickers.