Record clamps: do they really make a difference.

Hi Lewm, I have been using the Sota reflex clamp religously for 21 years now. I think that for me to play a record without it now would be almost as hard for me as walking naked in public. (btw- I hate those dreams). I believe in it for the reasons that I cited while at the same time knowing that my reasons could be all wet. I have learned some things through experimentation and I have improved my analog sound with better isolation and dampening materials. I have been pleasantly surprised by some changes that I made using different materials; getting more than I expected and I have experienced disappointments when changes made things worse.
I will not presume to tell people that they must use a clamp. Like I said, I have used the clamp for so long, perhaps I should try a record without it once and see what happens. I'm just not sure that I can take that first step...

I think the issue of clamps or weights is too equipment-specific to permit generalized recommendations. In my case, a number of years ago when I used a VPI 19 Mk3, I thought the stock clamp improved the sound without any negatives, so I used it all the time. When I switched to a Galibier table, I started out with the heavy PVC platter (14 lbs) and I spent many hours experimenting with the 6 lb weight (appropriately named the Anvil) that came with it. The Anvil is an aluminum weight that is filled with lead shot and oil. What I found is that the Anvil consistently did some very good things but also some not-so-good things. In other words, there were tradeoffs when using it. To complicate matters further, the type of reflex washer made a significant difference as well. On balance, I usually ended up using the Anvil but I was always aware that I was sacrificing in some areas.

Fortunately, this all changed when I upgraded the platter to what Thom Mackris now calls the Gavia platter. This is an even heavier (32 lbs) aluminum platter filled with lead shot, oil and PVC damping materials and topped off with a graphite top plate. This new platter sounds much better than the old PVC platter but it also consistently sounds better when used bareback, i.e. without the Anvil or reflex washer. This makes life much simpler.

So the takeaway as far as I'm concerned is that it is difficult to generalize about clamps. With some equipment and to some users, they may be an overall improvement, but to others not. You just have to try it for yourself and reach your own conclusion. One thing can be stated unequivocally---a record weight or clamp does change the sound. Anyone who says differently hasn't listened carefully enough in my opinion.

Since your cartridge/tonearm must follow the plane of the record, the primary purpose of a clamp is to level the playing surface. A flat surface reduces dramatic up/down cartridge motions, resulting in better tracking. Other perceived benefits of a clamp are adjunct. A mat cannot physically accomplish this.

Raul
Yes - check out the Meitner turntable from the 80's. It had no platter, clamped the record under/over the record label portion and left the playing surface unsupported. Many audiophiles here tried various versions and iterations - loss of resolution. The unsupported record gave a smooth sound which was alluring, but lacked resolution ( detail ) and leading edge.
I have tried the Resomat on various decks - coloured, tizzy and lacks information compared to an unclamped copper mat.

I also had a Roksan which had a removable spindle whjlst playing ( ET2/Carnergie ). A small subtle difference when spindle removed for playing.

I will use a clamp or stabiliser if it improves resolution. I dont look for a pretty sound, I want to get as much information off the record as possible, with accurate timing, accurate preservation of harmonic structure etc and minimal addition of spurious artefacts and distortions with the playback system.

Whether the use of clamps/weights is better or worse is going to depend on the quality of design and the platter underneath. There has been no explanation here on the clamp design by contributors who have posted their findings. In my view most folk here are using clamps/stabilisers/rags/record mats simply as tone controls to get a sound they like.

Someone here uses the Sota Reflex clamp as a weight only - reflex not engaged, probably no washer. Surely a disservice to the designer - if you are going to comment on a product run it as per the manual/designers intent, reflex clamp engaged with washer under the record, and with the matching Sota mat. By the way for Sota clamp users, there is adjustment available of the "grip level" and reflex action that should be adjusted for your spindle to get the clamp working at an optimum.

As I stated above most weights/stabilisers are flat bottomed and merely sit on the label. They are not improving the coupling of the record to the platter, they are simply a weight on the label that would alter the resonant characteristics of the the record. In the case of reflex style clamps they are coupling the record to the spindle as well as the platter and this may be detrimental on a poorly designed turntable.

On my Final Audio the 1.8kg stabiliser has a rim that applies pressure only at the edge of the record label. I made a series of washers of varying thickness to sit under the record. In this way I can optimise the coupling for records of varying thickness, rigidity etc to get the maximum surface coupling to the copper (4.5kg) mat that has a recess for the label and is designed specifically for the stabiliser/washer system. In this system with or without the clamp soft mats tried such as leather, Sota gauze mat ( cant remember the name ), felt all lose resolution ( detail ). I have not tried the much vaunted pigskin that Halcro uses.

Halcro if you are reading this you will be pleased to know that 47 Labs makes both a pigskin and doeskin mat you might want to investigate.

Dear Tonywinsc: +++++ " that too much damping as in using a periphial ring sucked the life out of the music....... I don't see how it could suck the life out of the record since the record is the source of the vibrations- not reflecting them. " +++++

IMHO we can't overdamp the LP grooves/stylus, as a fact what we want is precisely that: overdamp it for the stylus/cantilever can take only the grooves modulations with out any other kind of " movement " that could alter that situation. This means that as better we damp ( no feedback either. ) down there as better lower cartridge signal degradation.

Your post is precise, real and lot better that what I can explain about:

+++++ " The analog system starts by creating vibrations- actually recreating the vibrations frozen into the vinyl disc. Any variance from those vibrations in the disc is distortion. " ++++++

we have to understand that and understand its consequences.

The other side of that subject is that almost all of us are accustom and with ears/brain perffectly equalized to several kind of distortions generated down there that when we " overdamped " those several kind of distortions almost disappear and disappear too almost all the colorations/false information we are accustomed with.

When this happen ( the new " overdamped " sounds ) this IMHO is a very good news and what now we have to do is to make a reset on the overall set up audio system chain: link by link and if is necessary even change the links that now do not perform well with the today system needs.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.