2. digital
  3. 1126769860

Reference DACS: An overall perspective

There has been many threads the last few months regarding the sonic signature of some of the highest regarded reference DACS (Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) here on the GON. I have been very fortunate to audtion many of these wonderful pieces in my home or friend's systems. I wanted to share, in a systematic way, my impressions/opinions with you GON members for a two reasons: 1)That my experiences might be helpful to fellow members interested in audtioning these DACS. 2)Starting an interesting discussion regarding the different "sonic flavors" of these reference digital front ends. I totally agree with the statement, "if you have not heard it you don't have an opinion". Therefore, I have no comments regarding DACS from Weiss,Goldmund,Audio Aero and Burmester because I have never had the pleasure of audtioning them. I would love to hear from members who have and share their experiences with us. My overall impression is that these DACS(Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) can be grouped into two molar categories regarding their overall sonic signature. By the way, all of them can throw a large/deep soundstage with excellent layering in the acoustic space with "air" around individual players on that stage. However, than they start to part company into two major categories. Category #1) These DACS "flavors" revolve around pristine clarity, fine sharp details,speed,very extended top/bottom frequencies,and great PRAT. These DACS never sound "etched" or "in your face" but are more "upfront" then "layed back" in their presentation. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Dcs,Ensemble,Meitner. My personnal favorite in this group is the Ensemble, which I owned for two years. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Wilson,Thiel,Dynaudio, Focal/JM Labs. Category #2) These DACS "flavors" revolve around a "musical/organic" sense, natural timbres,and an easy flowing liquidity. Their "less forward" presentation my give the impression of less detail, but I think in this case its an illusion fostered by their more relaxed/organic manner. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts. I did find that the tube DACS did not have the top/bottom frequency extenstion and PRAT of the SS DACS in this bracket. For me, the Accustic Arts DAC1-MK3 gave me the best of both categories, therefore it is now the resident DAC in my system. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Magnepan,Von Schweikert,Sonus Faber. Well, it's all just my opinion regarding these digital pieces, but I hope this post was at least informative/somewhat interesting and would lend itself to other GON members sharing their impressions, not about what DAC is the "BEST" in the world, but your personnal taste and synergy with your system.
teajay
teajay OP
1,703 posts
 
Hi, to both Branimir and Exlibris, I agree with your conclusion regarding using the CDSD transport to really see if you will get the sound you are seeking out of your Meitner DAC. My friend who uses the CEC TL-0, prefers this on redbook, had to send his TL-0 to be re-calibrated by Meitner so that his DAC would lock on to the CEC TL-0. I also found it interesting, Exlibris, that you also run Acoustic Zen Absolute wire in your system, I do too, and think its wonderful wire. Do you use both the IC's and speaker wire? If not, what else do you use in your system? Branimir, I just got my new, BOUND FOR SOUND, newsletter, its written by Martin G. DeWulf who's based in Kewanee, Illinois. Mr. DeWulf did a review on the Weiss Medea DAC, not the Jason transport, and came to some very bizarre conclusions about its voiceing and performance that I think you would get a kick out of. His newsletter is one of the rags I read for shear "entertainment/pleasure" not useful information, I don't take any of the reviewers seriously, but thought if you get a copy of his newsletter it would tickle your funny bone regarding the Medea DAC.
exlibris
438 posts
 
Teajay,
I use Absolute ICs and speaker wire. I also use Harmonix PCs.
I appreciate your choice in speakers as well. It looks like we are after the same sound.

The following is completely off-topic...
I'm not one to rave about any components (I have never done so on this forum or any other) but I feel compelled to extol the virtues of the Sound Application Reference Linestage (AC device) that I just purchased. I have tried the Equi=tech; IsoClean; Harmonix; etc., etc.; I even tried running my entire system off batteries (it worked really well, by the way) but nothing has even come close to the performance of this product. It has absolutely transformed my system. It is stunning. I catch myself smiling and shaking my head at the new level of performance of my system. I haven't tried everything out there so I am hesitant to say that there is nothing better...what the heck "this is the BEST AC conditioner ever made!" Everything I've tried (except the battery unit) is -incredibly- inferior. I cannot overstate the magnificence of this product.
To put it in perspective: Earlier this year I changed amps. I was using a $1,00, 125 wpc, solid state, stereo, Audio Refinement amp from Taiwan (I had sold my Rowland amp to buy speakers and this was all I had in the house). I now use four Manley Neo-Classic 250 monoblocks. This change was not as significant as the change made by the Sound Application Reference Linestage. I'm not exagerating and I have no financial interest in the Sound Application company.
One caveat: The electricity where I live is horrid and I am plagued by RFI and EMI. Others may not experience such a profound change.
End of rave|

Can you post some of DeWulf's bizarre conclusions about the Weiss, or contact me off-list? What is his reference digital front end?
oneobgyn
410 posts
 
Exlibris
I second your feelings about Sound Application. I too use one and am amazed at how well it performs

Jim Weil, the owner of Sound Application has been to my house to set mine up and we did several a/b tests with what I was using vs his. The results were staggering.

Jim makes each device himself. His wife who is an electrical engineer and graduate of Annapolis does all of the design work.

If there is a shortcoming it is the price which is not cheap.
teajay OP
1,703 posts
 
Exlibris, you requested some of Mr. Martin DeWulf's comments regarding the Weiss Medea DAC, so here they are: 1)The Medea did not have the drive and presence that I found in the Benchmark DAC 1. 2) The Medea can get loud, but never got raucous and wild. For a lack of a better term, it never completely let its hair down and boogied. 3) In terms of dynamic contrasts and audible energy, the Medea came off as ever so restrained. 4) It would not surprise me one bit if the Medea was voiced using horn loudspeakers... it still appears to me that the negatives I hear in this unit appear to negatively mirror some of those things I personally don't like about the sound of horns. Well, everybody has a right to their opinion including Mr. DeWulf, but alittle strange, wouldn't you say? As far as I can tell he used his reference transport, Camelot Round table along with Camelot Dragon digital signal processor to drive the Medea and his reference DAC in what he calls his "Big Rig" is the MSB Platinum DAC. I have heard the Benchmark DAC 1 and it offers very good performance at its $1000.00 price point, however I like the Bel Canto DAC II much better sonicly at $1200.00, but my ear's told me it came nowhere close to the performance and sonics of such DACS as Ensemble, Meitner, Accustic Arts, Reimyo, etc. I have not had the pleasure to listen to the Medea/Jason combo, but I believe that Branimir would have a few things to offer about how Mr. DeWulf described the sound of this digital front end. I think it will be hard for him to believe that good old Martin was listening to the Medea/Jason at all!
branimir
236 posts
 
Teajay, after reading your post about Martin De Wulf's comments regarding Weiss Medea I was almost reluctant to write any comment. But, here we are so: 1) His findings could be the result of using 'high' output level switch-it maybe overloaded his preamp($2.5K Headphone pre!!)... 2) He was using some kind of illegal substance during review period(...more likely). 3) There is a great suspicion that he actually listem to Medea in his system.
De Wulf's comments remined me in recent 'trash' review of Wilson speakers-that 'wizard' didn't even listen to Maxx II in his system but, he trashed them anyway and we have a thread about that here on Agon.
Kalman Rubison and John Atkison(Stereophile),Jimmy Hughes(HIFI+), reviewers of german Audio Mag, dozen of people from recording industry and many audiophiles(including myself) are all crazy because we all like Medea(and Jason) very much and consider it as a one of the best digital playback systems(RBCD) on the market.
Let me give you few quotes from wonderful review in HIFI+(issue 35) by Jimmy Hughes:
He wrote ˝The music sounded vivid and lucid, yet at the same time very natural and belivebile. It was a winning combination: impressive fine detail and sharpness, allied to an attractive smoothness and naturalness. Put in simpler more basic terms, it sounded right. Tonally, the music sounded beautifully balanced-sharp and tactile, while at the same time smooth and integrated. Difficult things-like massed violins, solo voices, massed choral forces-had a difficult-to-describe rightness that struck me as being wholly natural and authentic. ... The Weiss DAC magically tamed the brightness/hardness without losing brilliance and immediacy. ... Medea was sweeter , mellower, with a more analogue sort of reproduction-sounded even more natural, and belivebile. It sounded realistic, and very easy to listen to. The Medea produced a truly 'big' sound; quite awesomely huge.˝
Pretty much opposite from 'wizard' form BFS.
I will continue to enjoy my Weiss combo very much!
Regarding BFS, best of luck to them! Maybe these 'Wizards' will return to Oz someday...
More to discover