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Referent point

Look if we are going to get anywhere in this discussion on speakers,,,we've been at here now going on 20years +, We need to figure out how we are going to go forward into this 21st C, which now is 21 yrs and going.
Time to establsih some sort of reference posit, a  speaker that we  can all agree on which is neutral, efficient and worthy to be considered true high fidelity, Last qualification, is that any amp can drive the Speaker, From  Jadis JA 800 monos blaocsk a  4 chassis 800 lb amplifier to a  1 watt SET amp.
Sure I realize this is asking for the impossible, 
'But really its not.
There is such speakers.
These would be the wide bands.
You know the Fostex/Lowther you atried back in the day and found less than high fidelity.
Well we should not throw the babt out with the  bath water.
The wide bands were developed in Berlin and Chicago back in the 1920;s. and IMHO are the finest design in any speaker (exception are the horns).
We can not make the big horns as reference, as few of us here can afford the big guys, + many other issues which make  horns not a  practical reference point.\
The only speaker i know that can fill the parameters to be designated as The Reference Point, as wide bands.
All speakers  must be judged next to a  high tech wide band.
Wide bands will expose the glares and flaws in your speaker, which are completely hidden from your ears at the moment.
I mean if we are all seeking true high fidelity  its high time to face the facts of 
1) bigger is not better
2) throwing money at a  speaker will result in great sound
3) thinking outside the box is  the creative approach to discovering high fidelity.
4) a  lab name means nothing when heard next to a  high tech wide band.(We can lay this blame at Sterophiles feet)


mozartfan
danager's avatar
danager
967 posts
 
Reference defined as::
Complete full midrange, in all its charms and colors, nice gorgeous soundstage, zero fatigue, zero colotation, voice 100% accurate. All amps are acceptable , from 1 watt to 1k watts.

are you sure that's not what  colotation referent means?  :)

Passive crossovers do inject distortions into the signal and screws with the phase but wide bands have issues too.  As much as I like midrange my reference speakers need to have bass and highs and while more recent drivers can come closer, physics just  gets in the way.

Active speakers are the most likely to get you the reference  sound you are looking for.  Basically just feeding the driver the frequency band that falls into its sweet spot and using multiple wide bands working in unison can be tuned to provide a flat coherent full frequency speaker. 

With that you can could build around the amps.  Since all amps are acceptable for less than the cost of one decent amp you could use multiple chip amps to accomplish the reference sound.  
One of the guys in the DIY club did just that and while I haven't heard them they are supposed to sound really good.

mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
I can understand why Klipsche horns make a big impression on folks
In a  20x20 10 ft ceiling,,oh yeah, what a  massive sound stage, HUGE..But what do w e really have going on in the fq spectrum,,really i mean.
We have alot of big sound.
But are we really after huge sound stage?? 
Why?
Avg listening room is 10x15, 8 foot ceiling.
Big Wilson's big Klipsche, big Vandersttens, the weaknesses will be heard clearly ina  mid size room.
The only speaker that I know that can sound super clean and perfect in all critical midrange fq's are the new high tech wide bands. 
'If the room is 8x8x8 or Buckingham Place's listening room, 100x100x100, The WBer will come out as the Reference Point Speaker.
The WBer is the ultimate 2nd to none (exception big expensive horns $50G's++ = disqualified) musical experience. 
streamerdude
54 posts
 
The best speakers were in the US embassy in Cuba…
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
I think some of you  think I just happened to make up this idea of a  Reference Speaker, just out of the  blue as if the idea just poped in my head  , not based on reality ck.
Well acutally this idea has a long history of exp behind it.
As I listen to mujsic on the WBer,, ideas get rolling around in my head.
I start asking Q's. and Thats how I cam up with this idea of  aReference Speaker. A speaker that could be placed next to a  challenger and make a  valid reference comparison.
The only speaker i know that is as neutral as Seas Excel Thor, is this wide band high tech 8.
Same neutral, and natural presentation of music, but on a  much bigger soundstage (= much higher db sens = Destroys Seas Excel Thors)

The Seas Thors were in soem ways my old Reference Speaker, but now surpassed with the new high tech wide bands 8.
btw the Excel line is going on 20 yrs+ , and so has fallen behind  on in new developments.
Seas should have concentrated on making a  super high tech wide band.
Their current 15 yr old WB model is a  bomb. I've not heard their Alnico Full Range,  again its 20+ yrs old and no doubt far surpassed by the 2 chinese labs. 
+ Very pricey at $700 each. 

Seas just never took the initiative to  further develope the wide band speaker.  Guess the money was not there. 
Due to the hard cold fact the USA audiophile  is obsessed, if not POSESSED , with his traditional box /xover things.
Seas has to go where the money is.

The Wide band 8's are now finally here and yet no one seems to take note, nor show any serious interest.
Speakers have always been my passion. 
Lucky for me the chinese tech geek figured out the design to deliver what I believe is 
*Reference Sound*
This keeps me off  the speaker Merry-Go-Round. 
missioncoonery
1,237 posts
 
Wide band .wide band...jesus christ ,some start talking about Tekton 
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