Referent point

stringreen5,988 posts09-18-2021 8:54pmTo these ears what horns do better than most is their ability to get closer to the dynamics of live music.

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Of course a  big expensive world class horn system is  w/o a  doubt the  only true Reference Point Speaker.
Thing here is, how many of us will ever get a  opportunity to hear sucha   system?
And how many of us here have the cash to afford a  horn system of that Reference Point quality?
For these 2 reasons and many others, horns  are disqualified  as being chosen as Reference Point.
So the next best thing , is.....Wide Banders.
WE have to be realistic here. 
All members have access to a wide bander. 
There are 3-4 reasons why WBers are the chosen speaker for being designated Reference Point.

jd555 posts09-19-2021 1:04amOp
i like where you going with this but maybe we should collectively pick ten attributes that make the best reference point and and always try to reference those when describing equipment.


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Great jd55
So at least you and a few others are on board.
Others here want to re-rail this train.
Hey new ideas throughtout history always had the resistors, the deniers.. Then 100 yrs later the original idea pops up again, and only then, finds acceptance.
The 1929 movie theater huge wide bands were the *bombs* of their day.
You had no boxes with drivers of low sens /xovers...
Then you can follow the history of speakers through the decades.
I wonder had we wide bands on display in our audio shops back in the 70’s/80’s, would some of us chosen WBers over low sens types??
THere were the Jensen’s. in the late 50’s/60’s, But I’ve not heard them.
And of course we should not forget the EV/Jensen horns around this time.
Some folks still hold onto these old high quality speakers and believe they are as good as it gets.

As good as these EV/Jensen wide bands/horns may be, I believe the new high tech wide bands developed in china today, are far superior to these old standards.

10 characteristics/qualities that designate WBers as The Reference Point Speaker.

I’ve given most of the top reasons why WBers have earned this emminent award.
The 1 most critical factor is ~~~Midrange~~ Fq’s say 300hz-say...3khz...
based on my limited exp, these new WBers seem to present music like no box/xover is able to voice.
HIgher sensitivity + perfect midrange gives WBers a unique and distinctive place in speaker techology.

We have gone full circle,
What began as wide banders in Chicago and Berlin , 1929, now has come fulll cicrle back to WBers, as the speaker of choice for high fidelity.

High Sens WBers are super amp friendly , 
La Creme de la creame is under 9 oclock gain on your amp.
This is when your amp is not pushing,  most happy.
WBers with their 92db+ sensitivity allows  the musica to be gently coaxed from the amplifier, YOu can actually feel how smooth and delicate is the music played overa  WBer  speaker vs a  box/xover low sens type, 
The ones in your listening room. 
You only imagine you've heard your music via the low sens speakers in your system.
You've been led astray. 
Its alla  delusion.
When you acutally hear a  high tech high sens WBer, your ears will be opened, you will hear the light-ness of beautiful music.
Especially you jazz fan.s
The new high tech WBers is the ONLY speaker you should consider, if you really  want to exp lifelike vocals, gorgeous midrange colors, zero dis-coloration (-distortion/= fatigue)
For my classical music, now finally all the notes are being fully represented in details and dynamics. 
The Seas Thors are a  joke next to the new high tech WBers. 
Troels Gravesen's incredible high tech designs are jokes next to a  high tech WBers.
All has to do with higher sens and midrange. 
Scanspeak and Seas are hadicaped in both depts next to a  WBer. 

Higher sensitivity always , in the end gane, wins out.
baddest gun slinger in the old wild west
WBer 8’s
What was once dead and forgotten, buried neath a pile of box/xover/low sens/commercialized/consumerized LOUD speakers,,has now been reborn, like the Phoenix in the fires.
Midrangemidrantgemidrange
All 3 levels of mids fully represented in glorious colors as per the studio recording.
A feat your box speakers can't perform. 

OK you say,, well any  speaker can play light jazz, like Diana Krall, Sophie Milman.
Give us soem full swing blues
'OK 
You got it
Here you will hear the DLVX8 in more complex swing orchestra.

I try to further my argument in my case that the new high tech wide banders
TB2145 and DLVX* have set the standards for judging all box/xover type speakers.

Try to make it through the full 15 minutes.
Trust me, the  speakers sound exactly as you hear them in this video,.
Just pure easy midrange, extremely neutral , and  naturally musical.
The labs in Chicago/Berlin making these wide bands were the best speaker engineers  ever.
These guys were like the Einsteins of speaker designs. 
WE should all follow their lead.
Thankfully 2 labs in china did just that. Follow the high fidelity.
Both labs deserve the highest awards in all things audio.
For w'/o high fidelity speakers, your $$$$$$ amp is  worth no more than ,,,Low Fidelity. .
Who wants low fidelity? Such as Bose and B&W's type sound.
Wilson's are only a  step above B&W.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjKBJ90-7M0

Yes open baffle, single driver, no crossover speakers have a unique sound. No one is denying that. I take it you like that sound and it’s the sound you use to measure other speakers by.
OK I have no issue with that. Open baffles do some things really well .
OK lets look at where you are coming from and the assumptions you state are facts.

I mean if we are all seeking true high fidelity its high time to face the facts of
1) bigger is not better
This isn’t necessarily true even in the wide band arena. The larger the baffle the more bass you’ll get. Increased bass response is a good thing in a reference speaker

2) throwing money at a speaker will result in great sound
Not untrue but typically better components result in better sounding components. There is a 6moons post about building a high end system for $1000 using an open baffle speaker. Since the article was posted the speaker manufacture has started using more expensive drivers which resulted in better sound.

3) thinking outside the box is the creative approach to discovering high fidelity.
I can’t agree more but that also includes other speaker designs.

4) a lab name means nothing when heard next to a high tech wide band.(We can lay this blame at Sterophiles feet)
Here’s the rub. This statement is vague, mostly untrue and only undermines the purpose of the post. Magazine reviewers are paid by the word and a poor review could cut them off from that manufactures products is true but they also have an audience of listeners who actually pay them and if a product was truly that superior and they didn’t report it they would be out of business

If there was ever was truly such a thing as a reference speaker it would probably be the Rogers LS3/5A. It was used in recording studios by the engineers who actually recorded the music you’re listening too. Playback through the Rogers would be a baseline / reference. From how it originally sounded to how it sounds on the new speakers.

I get it you are excited but most of us have already been there, done that and moved on. Repeatedly posting something on multiple threads doesn’t make it so.