Retail Buying - Reality Check

If you are dropping $60k to $80k on a system, you SHOULD get at LEAST a 20% discount off of MSRP from a dealer. Especially if that dealer is doing the installation.

This is what I would suggest:

Contact:
http://www.sounddecisionsllc.com/contact_us/contact_us_1.htm

These guys are located in Birmingham, AL which is not that far from you. I used to work for them and they do great work.

They should give you a quote of at least 20% off MSRP (especially if they do the installation).

Let me know how things work out.

You can email me at: tok20000@aol.com
AOL is bouncing emails from Audiogon and it is driving me nuts.

Sincerely,

KF

Zaikesman,

Believe or not, I went into the stores hoping to find quality products and expert advice at competitive prices. Had I been able to do this I would have bought new and paid more. No problemo. What I found was quality products (with a unwavering bias towards that which they sold), varying degrees of expertise (from brilliant and impassioned (I really liked him because of his obvious love of his craft) to someone who didn't know the difference between the gain control and crossover switch on a Velodyne sub. (He kept insisting the switch (the gain) was fully turned up when I asked him what frequency it was crossing with the mains.) and laughable prices. It was only at that point when I had real bids in my hands that I thought of looking seriously at alternative markets. I stopped going by the stores, although now the salesmen keep calling wanting to "earn my business". I don't waste anyoneone's time intentionally.

Tok20000

Thanks for the suggestion about your friends in Birmingham. At this point though, I am much further down the road with all the amps, processors, speakers (except surrounds), & projectors I need. (I really was a ready, willing and able buyer when I walked into the retail stores). I will stop over there next trip, meet them and keep them in mind for other fututre needs.

I appreciate the suggestion.

It's becoming quite clear that the Internet does a much better job serving niche markets than bricks-and-mortar stores do. Sure, the local guy can theoretically provide more "service," but how much service do audiophiles need? Home theater design and installation is a different case, which is why the local guys who are still around are getting into it as fast as they can.

Believe it or not, I had a much longer diatribe written out detailing my growing contempt for the actions of some who have posted here. But then, I figured it would be lost on the very ones who most deserve it.

I buy both new and used equipment. I don't waste the time of dealers sitting in their showrooms for hours while I decide their equipment is what I want (nor do I take their bids on systems and use them as my shopping list) and then purchase the equipment elsewhere without giving the dealer every opportunity to win your business. Those who feel guilty about this conduct should. Those who don't are beyond any words that I could write.

It was posted several times how the margins are so outrageous in hi-end audio. Some have shown their ignorance of what is the typical margin for hi-end audio. The more informed at least understand that the margin on other luxury items is many times that of hi-end audio electronics.

Not one person has mentioned the designer. Does he/she not deserve compensation for the years of education and lab work to develop these products? If any of you could design and build a product that was worthy of ownership, you might understand, but I'm sure this point is lost on all but a very few. Might I suggest that some should read "Atlas Shrugged"? If you want mass market prices, then stop complaining and go back to purchasing mass market equipment.

All I've read are the rationalizations of people who want to be patted on the back for having not paid retail. Guess what? In all seriousness, Congratulations! I've got no problem with that at all. ( Sorry, but I've got to vent a little. I can't think of anything more annoying than hearing excuses for not having more money to spend because of kids or potential marital strife that might ensue. It is your life! You chose who you married, and chose to have kids and the obligations that are your responsibility. Why do you think anyone else cares? Do people understand the less-than-admirable impression it gives of your spouse, or of an underlying resentment towards your kids? Sorry, Stn. I don't intend to be picking on you personally, but you just happened to mention both of my pet peeves. I'm sure that neither inference is true in your case. What's wrong with simply stating that one has only a certain amount of money to spend, and leave it at that?)

However, I must suggest a concept that appears to be forgotten- it is important how one plays the game. These are more the actions of those in elementary school cheating on the quiz by looking over the shoulders of those with the answers, and then expecting congratulations for a score (or system) unearned and likely under appreciated. The truly sad thing is that it was an open-book test!

Most of the "answers" are available free, right here and on other similar sites, from audiophiles who are glad to share their acquired expertise. If you aren't going to support the brick & mortar, then stop wasting their time. Don't go in and touch and see and hear their equipment and systems. Don't ask their opinions and advice. Getting good prices is a two-way street. Your openness and genuine interest, and yes, your developed relationship with a dealer will insure better deals.

I left retail (selling mid-fi and entry hi-end no less) 20 years ago when I finished college. I'm glad you've reminded me why dealing with the public was such a double-edged experience. I'm sure my comments may ruffle some feathers, but there didn't seem to be sufficient representation of the contrary position. As always, just one contrary man's opinion.