SACD- my intial thoughts....

My experiences with initially the Sony SCD-1, then the Marantz SA-1, and now the Lindemann D680 would suggest that Ben's problem is the Sony DVP 900. Initially with the SCD-1 I could hear some improvement of the sacd layer over the cd layer--more extended highs and better sound staging, etc. The Marantz proved superior in these regards and proved to be a far superior cd transport, allowing me to sell my CEC TL0 Mk II. But the Lindemann has blown away any contest from the cd layer. The realism is uncanny and the dynamic scary. This is not to say that the Lindemann is a poor performer on cds as it is probably the best I have heard.

I think that like cd players technology will ultimately allow quality low cost sacd players, but I do not think that time is here yet. In an age of MP3 and cheap computer sound boards, I can only be hopeful that sacds will flurish, as it is clearly superior to cds. I can also hope that the current rash of new sacds will continue allowing me to switch to mainly listening to sacds rather than LPs and cds.

Tbg-I don't doubt you are right but consider you have now changed players three times(or audtioned) to get a difference of a large magnitude.
My point is that the lower end players do not show a marked difference on performance-to me this is key in breaking the format.
Of course it is very early days in the development of SACD but when I hear some people describe the difference on the SCD-1 as marginal I do worry.
The good news is SACD releases is picking up momentum and this will help.

My 6 month experience with SACD was with the Sony 9000ES. I would say that the well-recorded SACD's were significantly better than well-recorded CD's. I feel that there is definitely an improvement over CD. However, I felt very limited by the availability of titles, and could only find about a dozen that I really even wanted. While the convenience of digital was nice, eventually the lure of vinyl took over, and now I have better sound and all the titles I want, for less money. I do hope that SACD makes more titles available, and has some success, because it is better sounding, if only a certain percentage, and if this doesn't go over, the manufacturers may just forget about high end sound, and go for MP-3 type formats. This would be very bad for you digital guys. If they see no support coming from the high end, it spells disaster for audiophile digital sound.

I would tend to agree but Brubeck's Time Out is hardly a well recorded session. Even on the SCD-1 it sounded much better than on cd, but on the Lindemann it is approaching realism. Would it not be great to have all DSD recorded sacds?

Ben,

I believe some of SACD are remastered of old master tapes.
If CD was done in earlier days while master tape still in its prime. Then, there may be some CD sounds better than SACD version, plus recording/remaster engineer's ear has to do with his/her capability of remastering tape to a digital source.

On the other hand, dynamic range has a very rigorous scientific definition. I believe SONY's gives the exact number in dB in its introduction paper of every SACD. The advantage is definitely there, and scientifically measurable (For sure, this part is not just simple mental effect). A well recorded SACD is for sure having a more dynamic sound than CD. However, a good LP setup still has a larger dynamic range than SACD. If your friend is referring to LP, I agree, analog is still the best in this regard. I am not sure how your friend compares SACD and CD. But remember the trick in my privous post, enough punch yet resolution. In real life a drummer does punch its drum exactly the same twice. In CD, lots of drumming sounds single toned, but in LP or good SACD not only can sound louder also more expressions because of beter resolution. You can hear the difference of differnt beat. Drum is easy to hear, actually the same applies to all other instrument. (That's why I still like pi-li-pi-li LP).
Piano is another good instrument to hear. Hear all bass/cello in an orchestra winding up and down. I don't think you can hear more music on CD than a LP or SACD.

Also digital processing and coding technology today is much better than old days. Actually, you will gain more than 6 bits of information (or I should say music or expressioins), considering coding/deciding is more advanced now.