2. analog
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SOTA Turn Table set up for 5K - more or less?

Hello all!

If you plese, I actually have two questions. Primarily what is the expense for being squarely in the mix with a more than competent TT array for one, and secondly will the vinyl cut of the exact same digital track ALWAYS be received as noticeably better, if all else in the system is ‘virtually’ the same?

IMO, if the second Q is NO. I’d not wish to spend one thin dime on a TT phono setup. Ever. There would be no need.

Only one demand must be addressed in my situation of the TT itself. It should have a tone arm ‘lifter upper’ ‘setter downer’ lever, if possible. These were fairly common uh, decades ago. I’m thinking it will keep me from destroying stylus with regularity. Maybe.

Neither am I into the MM or MC camp so that aspect probably should be touched upon here too if one is more favorable than the other to employ.

I’m aghast at some prices I’m seeing in the turntable market. Enormously expensive cartridges, arms, and of course, the table.

A friend just told me of an audition wherein a TT worth over 100K was in use. Whoa!

I am looking at what it takes these days to handily put digital in the rear view mirror. Albeit, I’d not throw digital out with the bath water, ever. It occurs to me so many state vinyl is the ‘ticket’, some phono setups I’ve heard IMHO simply have not been what I’d call ‘thrilling’ night and day, experiences. Are clicks and pops a thing one eventually gets used to and begins to ignore? Or is that a thing the LP may be introducing to the presentation, and not the phono outfit itself?

Throw on a Phono pre if required or desired, and the necessary or suggested accessories for keeping up and cleaning LPs and merely operating a TT somewhere in the middle ranges of high end audio becomes a whole lot of wow! And some serious frog skins. Between just the ph pre and cleaning box it isn’t hard to have $10K lifted from your account.

With the idea of having a extremely low maintenance TT setup which will undeniably, unquestionably and irrefutably, surpass the presentation of digital, where does one need to land budget wise?

To clarify, in 2017 using not necessarily but possibly, brand new pieces, what must a person spend to be well into the vinyl groove?

I should think, for this accounting, include a phono preamp, table, cartridge, arm, bare minimum tools, and good to very good maintainence equipment for cleaning and preserving the records.

Platforms and cables, would be arbitrary items chosen from user preffs and or seen as optional, eg., bases, and need not be included.

Is $5K more than enough, far too little, or is it an ‘are you kidding?” fact for amassing a very very nice, exceptionally adept phono system?

Or, is $5K plenty or more than enough for a functioning TT, but the rabbit hole doesn’t end there! If one is truly serious? Media not with standing.

Thanks for the insights.

blindjim
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islandmandan
1,260 posts
 
Jim, about eight years ago now, I decided to go back into vinyl. All those years, and all those dollars, have gotten me a more than competent, and satisfying, analog front end. Much of what you will do to achieve the result you desire will be dependent on the amount of your obsession with sound quality.

Being naive, I thought an inexpensive TT, phono pre, and cartridge would do the job. It didn't even come close (a $900 Project TT, POS Sumiko Bluepoint cart, etc.

A VPI Scout was next, definitely an improvement, though I tired of having a tonearm that acted as though it had palsy. What I have now is something special, and to me, expensive, even though I did the restoration, built the plinth, etc; etc; myself. Probably my biggest hurdle was having to learn how to achieve proper set up, which caused me to spend more than I intended on upgrades I didn't know how to make the most out of.

I enjoy my vinyl tremendously, and even built a DIY ultrasonic RCM ( cost $200, works fantastic). After all that, vinyl and digital are nearly neck and neck, as digital has improved a great deal in the last few years. Analog though, has its own rewards, as it is very satisfying to finally get the results you were after, and I am a DIY hound anyway, and enjoyed all my projects immensely. It's a very personal thing, how deeply you are prepared to involve yourself. Once you're there, it's rewarding, and something you can be proud of, depending on how much you actually do yourself to get there.

So, this is somewhat of a cautionary tale, though I would probably do it again, but I'd want to know what I know now first.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
Regards,
Dan

effischer
565 posts
 
Much good input above, with the key takeaway being that the ultimate answer is the one being the best solution is the one you like the most.

I have a high end turntable, arm, cartridge, phono section and IC.  I have a high end universal disc player.  I have a DAC in my preamp that's better than most of the hi-rez downloads out there.  For me, in my system, in my room, with LP, CD, SACD and hi-rez files of the same material, vinyl is clearly still better.  That's not to say that digital isn't good, it just isn't as good IME.

With a $5K budget, you can be into a very high end vinyl rig with these two postings that popped up today:  https://www.audiogon.com/listings/turntables-vacuum-with-warranty-factory-refurbished-2017-10-19-ana...  and https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tonearms-9-inch-armwand-2017-10-20-analog.  The table itself is actually a bit higher end than mine.  The arm is one of the very best made, period.  All you would need is a cartridge and an IC to finish the system.  Contrary to some, I don't believe a phono section is part of the turntable expense; many top-flight preamps come with very-good-to-reference level integral phono capability.

So, you pays your monies and takes your chances.  It was the right path for me and has been hugely rewarding every step of the way.  Take your time, do your research, ask questions and whenever possible, take the opportunity to audition.  At the end of the process, you're the only one who has to be satisfied, so decide for yourself after all is said and done.

Good luck & happy listening!
blindjim OP
3,092 posts
 

Islandmandan > … tonearm with palsy
> It's a very personal thing, how deeply you are prepared to involve yourself. Once you're there, it's rewarding, and something you can be proud of, depending on how much you actually do yourself to get there.
> DIY hound anyway Dan

Blindjim > I’m still laughing on the skittish tonearm note. lol

…and there’s the rub.

My intricate D.I.Y.-ing days are behind me. Way behind me. I can slug stuff around, carry this or that in significant poundage, make necessary cable connections, apply footers, etc. after that? Nope. Not gonna happen. I’d simply not trust myself swapping in or out a cart, and just can not do any tonearm adjusting, aligning, etc. that would have to be done by someone with exp and the right tools. I suspect this is a major concern.

Or, at least, mo’ ‘spensive.

Which is why I alluded to a setup which needs next to no adjusting after its installed properly.
Your input was outstanding. Many thanks Dan.


Effischer > many top-flight preamps come with very-good-to-reference level integral phono capability.
> Much good input above, with the key takeaway being that the ultimate answer is the one being the best solution is the one you like the most.

Blindjim > sensible words. Golden in fact. Many tanks.
Sadly, not the preamps I’ve so far considered. Although some of the INTs I’ve run across do have something by way of phono resources. MM or MC dunno.

I’m fast coming to a conclusion the analog playing field is a far more intimate affair. Way more tactile than merely the sum of its parts. That there is a pre-requisite need for physical contact between the user – owner, and the hardware as well as the media. A relationship that develops not just from tangible interaction or interest but comes from a deeper place in one’s humanity.

It sure seems far greater intimacy is a primary facet of the analog experience as one at the very least, must attend to the media episodically, rather than if at all. only brief respits from one interaction to the next delay that interval.

Hmmm.

So, exactly how much are ‘jukeboxes’ going for these days anyhow? lol

effischer
565 posts
 
Incorrect tonearm link in my post above.  Use this instead:  https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tonearms-client-inventory-wow-2017-10-20-analog.

You're correct in your understanding that analog is a more involved aspect of the audiophile hobby.  If you don't particularly enjoy extracting value from concentrated effort, it may not be for you.

Like I said, it's been immensely fulfilling for me, and for many of us.  Others don't find it quite their cup of tea.  Only you can decide.
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