subs for Sonus Faber Cremona M floor standing

Okay - just back from the Velodyne website where I found the Optimum 12. The Optimum 12 is a bit more than half the price of the DD12 plus - so what would I give up if I go with the Optimum 12 over the DD12? And is there any experience with the Opti 12?

Would the Opti 12 be considered better than the REL505?

Dear Daveyf: Options always are open, IMHO all depend on each one targets/priorities on quality level performance.

+++++ " my mains (SF GH's) are lighting fast and I know of no large driver ( we're talking 10" and above) subs that are quick enough to match these mains, " +++++

this link touch that " myth ":

http://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb061999.htm

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear Fundsgon: You can get these couple for less that you stated:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homesubw&1327021301&/Velodyne-DD-12-Piano-gloss-bla

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homesubw&1328659975&/Velodyne-DD-12-Piano-gloss-bla

I think that you can make some money when you sold the REL.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Raul, why do you think that speaker manufacturers do not use 12"tweeters or even for that matter many 12" midrange drivers. OTOH, why do you think that subwoofer manufacturers do not use 1" woofers? The ability of the driver to push air may have something to do with it, NO? IMHO, the large 12" -18" drivers just do NOT sound that fast in compared to say a tweeter of 1".....an 8" driver cannot move as much air as a 18" driver, BUT to my ears it's a lot faster sounding in the mid bass- upper mid bass area. ( which is where most of the bass instruments are producing sound)
So is it really a myth, or do you let your ears do the walking and talking, or your .:0)

Dear Daveyf: IMHO it is not only the driver dimension/size but which kind and size of magnet, woofer build material, build shape and overall construction and build excecution. In the other side and between other things the amp damping factor count too.

Now, IMHO there are no perfect drivers and one way or the other exist trade-offs and our choice will depend on our targets because if we want " flat " bass frequency down to 18-20hz then a 8" driver can't do it.

Normally when we are asking for a sub we are asking for that low kind of bass.

IMHO low bass is the frequency range more difficult to achieve/reproduce on accurate way and that's why I posted the importance to analyze/research in deep before any choice.

The subs subject and understanding on two channel system is so " new " that even some subs manufacturers has no clear and precise answer about, almost all take the add-on subs mainly as the traditional way: as a bass re-inforcement system but for me and my frist hand experiences with different audio systems is that that " traditional " way of think regarding subs is wrong or at least incomplete way incomplete.
That's why RELs has no high-pass function.

I'm not sure how good are the SF people about but maybe if you ask them how to mate their Cremonas with subs maybe ( maybe not. )they could tell you that the Cremonas in full range fashion and subs as " only " reinforcement bass.

Anyway, the subject is open to questions/answers and obviously IMHO there is no one answer for every single system/room circumstances.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.