Tenor Hybrid v. VTL MB-450 Sig.

Zaikesman, I didn't tell Crump to keep quiet, I told him to show some class and to offer constructive input regarding the topic of the thread or move along. Up to that point he had failed to address the topic of this thread. Finally, he did and I agree with his advice about amps. I disagree about just recommending a sub without even asking about the room first. But that is not the only assumption Bob has made in this thread - i.e. that the poster has room for larger speakers.

I may be old fashioned, but I think it is a but unbecoming for a "manufacturer" to make the sort of comments about other manufacturers that Bob did. Particularly when they are based on opinion, not fact. And particularly so when the comments fail to even address the question being asked. It just seems to me to be a bit tasteless on his part. But there is no accounting for good taste, and I suspect I should not expect it.

Corona, I have thought more about my comments and I stand by them, thanks.

Jim2, Brooks1 lives near Chicago in one of the most affluent areas so doubt his room is a closet.......I always thought it was fine for a manufacturer to offer opinions regarding something he neither sells nor makes....Sorry to be so tasteless and I'll try to limit my comments to gear you don't own in the future.......

I have been keeping an eye on this string and have a few things to add.
Robert, you are judging all VSM Millenniums by the ones heard at Rhyno's home and this is a mistake. His speakers were wired with the S harness. This version is voiced to be the antithesis of certain types of amplifiers that are both SS and tube. It tends to embellish the middle portion of the bandwidth to flesh out the music core. It does make for better image density but produces a more forward and less deep and wide presentation. Under certain situations they can be made to sound unbalanced, forward and somewhat truncated in the extreme treble and bass. By crossing the speaker over at 100 Hz you would again set the balance to lean and forward side by unweighting the natural balance of the VSM. That is why my subwoofers (which I will release when I am ready to increase my production) will cross over at 30 Hz at 12 or 24 dB per octave.
The T version of the speaker is not voiced and is much harder to lean out. It is capable of producing much more ambient information because it is more fleshed out in the extremities and thus, by comparison, relaxes the mids. This T version actually sounds quite a bit larger and tonally richer than the S version. And latter versions of the speakers with the 6th toe mod, tuning pucks and ERS materials sound even more relaxed, uniform and fleshed out making them sound even larger and more believable again.
The latest version of the VSM, the MX, sounds even fuller and considerably larger again so it is doing an absolutely fantastic job of recreating size and venue.
I am a big fan of Dr. West's electrostats and Andrew's Rockports and recommend them routinely for larger room applications. But, there is no doubt in my mind that the VSM has a special place in this market for normal sized living enviroments and in fact rooms of in excess of 5000 cubic feet with attention being paid to the tonal virtues of the wires and electronics.
I think you make fabulous products Bob but in my opinion they work much better with the latter T version of the VSM Millennium and the MX version than what you heard them on.
Happy New Year!
Bobby@merlin

One of the amazing things about this hobby and this site is the access to manufacturers and designers. As long as everyone knows who the players are, then there is no harm. Please feel free to jump in with whenever/however, you feel, Rcrumb. Although the regulars all know your background, a short disclaimer may be necessary to inform the new folks and satisfy some of the particularly fastidious among us.

Hi Bobbyapalkovic! I have not heard the latest wiring change you made to the VSMs, but really liked the combination of Ryan's VSMs and Entecs crossed over 6db per octave on the high pass at 100hz......The combination did just everything right.....Ryan used a huge custom high pass amplifier we at CTC built and it matched well with the amp in the Entecs.....Continuity was excellent as was the overall sound. Glad to hear you are going to unleash the woofers on the public one of these days and know you have been working on them for years.....

Swampwalker, I own TG Audio and CTC Builders. TG Audio manufactures Cables, AC Filters and Isolation Devices (footers). CTC Builders designed and builds a preamp and shortly a phono stage and does design work for others such as the JC-1 we designed for Parasound a year ago. We are currently working with a manufacturer on a digital playback system......TG has been around for 21 years and CTC for just over five years with my partners John Curl and Carl Thompson.