The correct internal-inductance of Windfeld cart.?

I think Axel is spot on with his comments and approach. I'm not quite sure I follow his distinction between "current" and "voltage mode" but maybe that is best for a different thread.

Lewm wrote:

I don't know of anyone else who uses a SUT and loads the cartridge on the primary side.

I covered this in a short thread back in november which can be found here

dave

Thanks very much, Dave. I bookmarked that thread for future reference. But in your experience with primary vs secondary loading does it often occur that the optimal net load for a given cartridge, when you load the primary of the SUT, is radically different from its optimal loading when there is NO SUT or when the load is in the SUT secondary? I can see how that could happen due to introduction of the SUT, thanks to the post you cited.

Hey Lew,

In a perfect world, The SUT would be ideal and hence invisible to the cartridge and all loads of equal value would sound the same. Experiences Like Axel's just show how far from ideal transformers really are. I do not think any sweeping generalizations can be safely made about loading with SUT's since in the real world so many parameters come into play. I do think they sound far better but as usual in this hobby, "better" is subjective and often comes with its own set of baggage.

dave

I learned something. To paraphrase Gertrude Stein, a SUT is not a SUT is not a SUT.

Hi all,
there is something that seems to 'fox' Lewm with the different loading values, and Intactaudio got some of it --but not all.
A cart working in 'voltage mode' MUST work into some 'highish' level of impedance, in order to work at all.
Most MCs need somewhere around 100 ohm loading but hardly ever less (with no SUT!).
Actually more ideal would be the 47k of the pre's input-impedance --- but there is this resonance issue with (still) most MC carts, starting at ~ 10kHz and producing just too much HF energy up to 16 - 20 kHz before roll-off.
To handle this the cart must be damped as we know.
This can be done either electrically or 'electro-mechanically' i.e. you are either loading it down electrically (pulling more current through that load resistor and thereby the cart-coil, which creates the damping effect) or, like more of late, built into the cart is some proprietary 'electro-mechanical' means of damping. Ortofon by example uses a mixed bag of 'tricks' to achieve that, I won't go into it here. Just check their Website and see what they do e.g. with the Windfeld.
Dynavectors has their own bag of 'tricks' for their top carts, etc.
Now, more current (I) also means even less voltage (V)(Ohms law) for the signal => pre-amp.
Try to load the cart with 10 ohm (no SUT) and there is a big drop in output added to the treble-roll off.
Newer MC carts are now often run into 47k (the pre's impedance only) and can sound great, it is the damping system in the cart that makes this possible.

The better the cart the less loading is required! (Because it is more 'well behaved', less HF resonance).

Now take the SUT situation (this where I say Intactaudio got it 'almost' right), there is such a thing as a PERFECT impedance-match. When this occurs NO 'reflections' are produced by the signal (check out why there are BNC connectors and the like). The result is maximum power transfer from cart to primary with no reflections. In order to get there, the input impedance of the trannie first needs to be matched to the cart coil's output impedance.
Now, it also is known by ROT that this cart-output-impedance is DCR*2.5 i.e. WP RDC 4ohm*2.5 = 10ohm and quoted as such (by Ortofon) as the minimum loading impedance, yes?

So now it might make more sense WHY 13ohm loading R || 47ohm the 'natural impedance' of the SUT = 10.18ohm is a good fit.
Forget the .18ohm mismatch since there is, as always, more to it than just that, but it is a good approximation and the rest is trial and error.

Last part: Therefore "Current mode" means that the cart delivers the most current it can, into the SUT's primary and the best / most when properly impedance matched.
This 'maxed out' cart-current produces the best possible damping of the cart --- BUT most of all, the current of the primary is converted into VOLTAGE at the secondary according to its ratio. So you find the best of both worlds, given a decent SUT of good bandwidth i.e. VERY low losses.

Maybe this helps to get some more better idea. Google Impedance matching if you want the 'low-down' and the details of the concept.
Best,
Axel