Thiel Owners

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You ears do  not deceive. White Ladder is a well-produced recording by David Gray.  This year the album celebrates a 20th anniversary.Enjoy the Music!
Happy Listening!

Jafant,

I currently measure the same way you do.  From my ear(s), I measure just over 8 feet from where the base of the speaker is.  Speakers are also 8 feet apart (measured from the center of each speaker) and 2’ 6” from the back walls (measured from the closest point on the rear of the speaker, which is near the top).  After a lot of trial and error, I find that placing the speakers on the long wall provides the best results for me, so while I sacrifice some in terms of distance from the back wall, I enjoy 5’ of distance from each side wall (measured from the tweeter).  But since my room measures at 20x15, I don’t have much wiggle room in terms of distance from the wall behind the listening position and the distance behind the speakers.  I try to keep my ears at least 3 feet from the wall behind me, which I think makes a bigger difference than the distance behind the speakers. 

Long winded way of saying I’m curious if everyone measures the same way.  Do you measure from the outside of the cabinet, from the tweeter, from the center line, or a mix (like me) depending on which wall/speaker you’re looking at?  I’d love to hear Tom Thiel’s thoughts too..

Thanks,

David

Dhoff - I'll add some context to your location question. Mostly, the spot you choose is up to you. You keep track of locating the speaker in your space and dimensions are handy for doing that.

In the background, is that the issues in play are rather larger than which spot you pick. The driver integration, lobing, room reflections, etc. are more dependent on the room variables than on the measurements. The spot I use is the tweeter plate, which is the same distance from the listener as the sonic centers of the midrange and woofer, which are both hard to determine, but closer to their voice coils than the baffle.

Relatedly, the angle of launch into the room is of great importance, but lacks an easy numeric measurement. That angle is influenced by how far the listener is off-axis, and also how the mix of the various frequencies of the various drivers is delivered into the room and the listener. I tilt the speaker back vertically to account for my 42" ear position (against the 3' design position). That tilting also affects the sonic envelope due to floor interactions which are different than the design assumptions (seated on a couch at 3' ear height).
The fun never stops.

Tom,

Thanks so much for weighing in.  I do enjoy a listening height of 3', which I noticed from your earlier posts is a critical factor in finding the sweet spot.  It also makes complete sense that there are many variables at play that have a greater impact on sound than focusing on precise placements.  But as you well know, we love to get lost in the details!  And with so much out there about distance from the walls, the listening position, and each speaker (including 3 full pages with 5 diagrams that Jim dedicated to it in my 3.7 manual), I just couldn't resist asking what people think the norm is (so thanks as well for mentioning you measure from the tweeter/midrange).  

Room treatments is probably my biggest missing element.  Presently I have an "acoustifuser" panel on my wall behind the listening spot that I purchased from Next Generation Acoustics, but nothing else to speak of besides some well position furniture and window shades.  Part of the issue is aesthetics (yes, it's a weakness), but it also is another rabbit hole that I fear I'll never get out of.  Of course, that also is where the fun lies..

I can offer what I find to be nearly ideal for my 2.4 listening position/setup.  Speakers 8' apart center-to-center, toed-in 10 degrees each or less, grilles on.  9.5' coax to my ear.  38" listening height.  I use the coax as my reference point as that defines the source of the most-directional sound and imaging and phase information comes from when making small adjustments to position.

But I've used the spikes to tilt the speakers back an unspecified amount, a little bit because my ear is 2" higher than design, but mostly due to having more vertical latitude for frequency balance.  Stereophile's vertical response graphs illustrate (though perhaps at too close a distance) that response above the coax axis sucks-out the lower-mids, and below the coax further fills-in the lower-mids.  So even if I give up some degree of time/phase coherency by tilting the speaker further back (altering arrival times ever-so-slightly from spec) I get more wiggle-room before midrange suck-out.

Additionally, each speaker is pretty much in free-space,  6' from cabinet edges to either side wall and 3' to a 'soft' back wall, 6' to a 'hard' back wall.  Nothing at all diffractory around the speakers or between the speakers and my ears, or even to the sides, after a little living room tweakage for a proper listening session, ie move the coffee table behind the speakers rather than right in front of the couch. 

A thick pile carpet, soft cushy furniture against the back wall, and an 8'x2' acoustical absorber behind the couch/listening positions.

RTA shows a lumpy low-frequency response due to my open floor plan asymmetrical living room (though this also puts 25Hz at 0dB ref 1kHz!), but otherwise lets the Thiels be Thiels with as little room interference as possible.  So I'm fortunate my current living space allows for such a great setup for any speaker to sound their best.