2. digital
  3. 1166325813

Today's Transport War: Significant Differences?

I have been reading much these days about computer/hard-drive based transports as being a whole order of magnitude superior to traditional CD transports. In my reading, the camp who believes hard-drive based transports can render major improvements has been most notably represented by Empirical Audio. The camp which suggests that traditional CD transport techonology (or atleast the best of its sort--VRDS-NEO) is still superior has been most notably represented by APL Hi-Fi.

Each of the camps mentioned above are genuine experts who have probably forgotten more about digital than many of us will ever understand. But my reading of each of their websites and comments they have made on various discussion threads (Audiogon, Audio Circle, and their own websites) suggests that they GENUINELY disagree about whether hard-drive based transportation of a digital signal really represents a categorical improvement in digital transport technology. And I am certain others on this site know a lot about this too.

I am NOT trying to set up a forum for a negative argument or an artificial either/or poll here. I want to understand the significant differences in the positions and better understand some of the technical reasons why there is such a significant difference of opinion on this. I am sincerely wondering what the crux of this difference is...the heart of the matter if you will.

I know experts in many fields and disciplines disagree with one another, and, I am not looking for resolution (well not philosophical resolution anyway) of these issues. I just want to better understand the arguments of whether hard-drive based digital transportation is a significant technical improvement over traditional CD transportation.

Respectfully,
pardales
seandtaylor99
1,262 posts
 
I think it's important to distinguish the different types of "computer audio".

The DAC might be on the sound card. I see this being a bad idea for reasons of noise.

It might stream SPDIF : this is also a bad idea for reasons of noise.

It might be streaming via USB. I can't see a problem with this so long as the DAC has a RAM buffer of sufficient size and a well designed oscillator and power supply.

It might be streaming via ethernet .... ditto USB.

Saying "computers can't stream digital" is an over-simplification.
jsadurni
210 posts
 
The Squeezebox streams digital Wifi and wired (I had less interruptions wired) via Ethernet, the buffer lasts for about a minute, it has an onboard DAC which was modded (power supply, clock, analog output, etc.) It "does stream digital", it sounds OK... "World Class" it is not.
So; all the bells and whistles are there;ram buffer, almost no jitter, Ethernet two way communication etc. one can argue about the implementation probably not being the best, so I got it modded...all the besll and whistles plus a much better implementation...Still sounded OK!
Much better through my outboard DAC, Extremely good with an outboard TRANSPORT!!!!
pardales OP
652 posts
 
The best conventional transport I have tried is the newer CEC TL-51X (I think I
have that model right) it retails for $1500. It was equivalent to the set-up I have
now, but not better.

Seandtaylor99: You make some important distinctions. I guess what I am talking
about is the situation where you are taking a USB signal out of a comptuter and
sending it to an external DAC (not using the computer or a soundcard for D/A).

Jsadurni: You are right about being able to draw a personal conclusion even
when a general one is elusive.
jsadurni
210 posts
 
Pardales; I hear you man, I was there and I have a bunch of *.wav files on my hard disc, then I noticed I stopped listening to whole CDs, I would just skip through songs, then I took longer looking for that song than listening to it (probably my inexperience), then I realized most of my favorite songs are not the HIT sinlge of the CD, but something I found by not standing up to change the CD, My Favorite movement from Bethoveen´s 9th is the Second while the Coral is the the Hit! (just an awful example, a symphony should be listened from begining to end).

Another thing; for critical listening I just could not bear knowing it could sound better hooking up the machine behind this one...but thats just me!
I am glad it is working out good for you though!
Maybe I will get a Hag-usb and try again!

How many favorite songs did you discover that are not the ones you bought the CD for?

What about vinyl?
audioengr
3,282 posts
 
Jsadurni - too bad about your experience with the SB. I have found that USB audio is much better quality than Wi-Fi (even though I sell an Off-Ramp Wi-Fi), but dont expect miracles if you buy a cheap converter. USB audio can outperform most transports IMO, but ONLY if:

1) you use a custom S/W driver - only comes with certain converters
2) you avoid the TI 270X chips - most of the converters are based on this
3) the converter is clock by a low-jitter clock, such as Superclock
4) you use a PC and SRC upsampler
5) you use the right ASIO plug-in

I know it's a lot to consider, but the results are well worth the effort.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer
More to discover