2. analog
  3. 161137-245

TONEARM DAMPING : DAMPED OR NOT ? ? USELESS ? ? WELCOMED ? ?

Dear friends: This tonearm critical subject sometimes can be controversial for say the least. Some audiophiles swear for non damped tonearms as the FR designs or SAEC or even the SME 3012 that is not very well damped in stock original status.

Some other audiophiles likes good damped tonearms.


In other thread a gentleman posted:


"  If a cartridge is properly matched to the tonearm damping is not required. " and even explained all what we know about the ideal resonance frequency range between tonearm and cartridge ( 8hz to 12hz. ). He refered to this when said: " properly matched to the tonearm ".


In that same thread that a Triplanar tonearm owner posted:


" This is the one thing about the Triplanar that I don't like. I never use the damping trough...... I imagine someone might have a use for it; I removed the troughs on my Triplanars; its nice to imagine that it sounds better for doing so. "


At the other side here it's a very well damped tonearm:


https://audiotraveler.wordpress.com/tag/townshend/


Now, after the LP is in the spining TT platter ( everything the same, including well matched cartridge/tonearm.  ) the must critical issue is what happens once the cartridge stylus tip hits/track the LP grooves modulations.

The ideal is that those groove modulations can pass to the cartridge motor with out any additional kind of developed resonances/vibrations and that the transducer makes its job mantaining the delicated and sensible signal integrity that comes in those recorded groove modulations.

 That is the ideal and could be utopic because all over the process/trip of the cartridge signal between the stylus tip ride and the output at the tonearm cable the signal suffers degradation (  resonances/vibrations/feedback ) mainly developed through all that " long trip " .


So, DAMPING IS NEED IT AT THE TONEARM/HEADSHELL SIDE OR NOT?


I'm trying to find out the " true " about and not looking if what we like it or not like it is rigth or not but what should be about and why of that " should be ".


I invite all of you analog lovers audiophiles to share your points of view in this critical analog audio subject. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT?


Thank's in advance.



Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.






Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas
neonknight
392 posts
 
I am not sure there is a blanket answer to this question. I suspect certain arm designs would benefit from having a dampening trough and others not so much. As anything it may be on a scale. Also, it may depend on which cartridge is installed, and to an extent which turntable it is on. What I have found is that its very easy to apply too much dampening to a turntable.

I have owned a  Townshend Rock MK III, currently have a Well Tempered Reference table, and the SME V I have has the trough also. I have found with the WTR and the Townshend that its easy to get the paddle too deep into the reservoir and the end result is a lifeless sound that is lacking harmonic texture and decay. But a light touch of the paddle into the silicone results in improved tracking in many cases. Once again it depends on how well the cartridge matches the tone arm, and its more of a tool to get a closer compliance match. I have also found that the cartridges I have installed on the SME V have no audible benefit from using the trough, so I currently have it empty. 

I think this is something you evaluate by a case by case basis. I also notice that Bruce Thigpin discontinued the use of a trough on his ET II tone arm a number of years ago, as he felt the benefits were minimal if any on his design. 

lewm
13,045 posts
 
It is very difficult to arrive at a general principle regarding tonearm damping, because in each individual instance any two different tonearms are going to be different from one another in many other ways, besides the presence or absence of damping and notwithstanding how the damping is applied, where there is any damping.  So I have come to evaluate each tonearm as an entity unto itself.  I own a Triplanar and wouldn't think of using it without its trough, although removing the trough from the Triplanar is a common theme on this forum going way back to Doug Deacon.  I also own an FR64S which I like very very much with many different cartridges, despite its lack of formal damping.  But the FR64S, at least as I use it, does employ mass damping, especially if you use it with its B60 accessory which adds a lot of mass to the base of the pivot.  On top of that, I mount mine in a mass-loaded tonearm mounting board consisting of two large pieces of machined aluminum bolted together (photos upon request).  Mass damping is still damping, even without some gooey substance dragging on the tonearm.  At the opposite extreme, I am not familiar with the latest Well Tempered tonearms, but I did have a lot of experience with the WT Reference tonearm, which in my opinion is WAY overdamped and makes every LP sound the same, regardless of the cartridge.  So, I would approach this question as regards one particular design and then ask does it sound better with or without damping.  I also don't agree with Mijostyn's oversimplified idea that if the resonant frequency is between 8 and 12Hz, no damping is needed.  Damping done right can broaden the resonant peak and reduce its maximum magnitude, which may be worth doing even within the magical boundaries of 8 to 12Hz.  But one would have to listen first.
jjss49's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
jjss49
6,612 posts
 
i agree with sentiments stated that overdamping is a common fault when using these tonearms/systems that allow fluid damping to be applied

less is more for sure

but some is better than none has been my experience

like all else in analog system ownership, finding ’just right’ is the trick, and it takes patience and sustained effort to achieve it
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,060 posts
 
Dear @noromance : the Jelco tonearms I know came/comes with oil damping system at the " top cup " of the pivot. Models SA and this new one too:

https://audiosensibility.com/Store/us_store.htm#!/Jelco-TS-550S-MKII-9-Tonearm-***-New-***/p/1893469...

R.
bukanona
174 posts
 
As I do have this Jelco 750EB with "top cup" - I can say that if not damped it's rather inferior with high compliance cartridges (no silicon oil in cup) 

With heavyweights/low compliance like SPU difference isn't so obvious, it takes time to understand that damping (silicon oil in cup) is better.

With high compliance difference is night and day.
More to discover