Tracking error distortion audibility

Dear Dertonarm: The understanding and know-how in almost any analog audio subject is a matter of in which level/point of any audio subject learning curve we each one are.

In an open forum and due to different experiences at different level ( good or wrong ) is too dificult that everyone of us agree totally, specially in an almost " new " stylus set-up.

Through these related threads on the subject I'm still learning things that could help in my tonearm design.

In my last post I speak about my mistakes/errors on cartridge/tonearm set-up over the time, well the last one was during one of the tests on my tonearm design:
" changing and testing an arm wand ( different build material ) by error ( I'm testing on prototype unit ) the arm wand was out of position on " length " distance and I put the same headshell/cartridge ( that already was checked on overhang ) with out checking again the stylus position in the pro-tractor because I can't " see " my arm wand position error.

Let me tell you that the error was not 1mm but almost 4mm( maybe more, I did not measure. ): Well that arm wand build material was so good that even that the set-up was totally wrong the sound was even better than with the other different arm wand and this fact impede me ( at that time/moment ) to know about the mistake

When I take in count of the error I fix it and the performance improve. "

One tool that help to take in count that error was to hearing my record tracks that i use like references.

But this error help me to understand ( I'm not saying is correct ) about that threshold of hearing with that kind of errors and of the importance not only of a tonearm build material but about its whole quality.

There are many subjects around that make so complex the whole tonearm/cartridge set-up. What is true is that we must to be really precise/scientific on the tonearm/cartridge set-up to obtain in a " better/best " way what is in the recording.

Anyone can do what they think/want but that does not means that always is rigth, is different with different distortions that are usualy higher than follow an orthodox method.

Of course that everyone is free to take the Lofgren/Baerwald and others work and put on the trash can. We live in a " democratic "/free world.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Hello Axel,
Believe me, I'm anal about cartridge alignment...
If the generator isn't mounted dead center inside the cartridge housing and you can't shift it by 0,3mm, then you'll have to rotate it and slide it forward or backward, depending on the generator being closer to the right side or the left side of the cartridge body.

BUT, the magnitude you described will cause an error so small as to make it near impossible to correct for it reliably and repeatably.

As an example, let's assume your cartridge generator is so far offset(sideways) that it causes the actual offset to be reduced by 0,5°(a larger figure than what can possibly result form generator displacement). Your eff. length is shorter than "normal"(let's say, by 0,3mm), if you have that cart mounted in an arm with fixed holes.

Here's what you get(SME V specs as a base):

Unaltered:
eff.L.: 233,15mm, Null points 66 and 121, average distorsion 0,42%
Now it gets interesting: distorsion at 61mm(inner groove area): 0,54%

Reduce the offset due to shift by 0,5°:
eff. L.: 233,15mm, Null points 71,4 and 111,8mm, average distorsion 0,389%
Distorsion at 61mm: 0,95%%

Additional compensation of eff. length due to shift, -0,3mm:
eff. L.: 232,85mm, Null points 71,8 and 111,1mm, average distorsion 0,393%
Distorsion at 61mm: 1%

Draw you own conclusions...

My take on this: Most people can make out a 0,3mm difference when aligning a cartridge. VERY few can tell the offset angle(sometimes referred to as "zenith") being off by any less than 1-2° !
It's the inner groove area where this really comes into play.

Cheers,

Frank

Hello Dertonarm,
Since my record collection numbers about 10000 with more than 60% being classical(and about 1/2 of those dating to 1965 and earlier), I know exactly what you are talking about.
I chose singles as an obvious example to make a point about tonearms used on broadcast turntables.

Yes, the IEC norm exists(the AES merely recommended it), but, as you said, was never universally adapted. We just have to deal with what's in existence. TP4 as a norm wasn't that big a success and a norm for 1/2" mount carts would limit cartridge designers in the future. If everyone would agree on a reasonable range for several cartridge dimensions, not just the mounting hole to stylus distance, but i.e. the height of the cart too, the consumers might be benefitting from it.

You are comparing yourself with Galileo? I hope you're not implying we're all out to crucify you , yet still live in the dark ages.
I for one like a civilized discourse, but not ego battles. So please come back anytime..

The remark about "increasing sales" is inappropriate and unfounded. If you have something to say, say it straight.

Ein schönes 1.Mai-Wochenende wünscht

Frank

Hi again,

Dertonarm:
"Dear all, after we have now learned that finally all parameters of the tonearm geometry are variable, nothing can stop us now entering analog heaven."

Yup, if your tonearm offers the key parameters to be varied, you can indeed implement standard alignments(B,L,S) or even move the Nullpoints according to your own preferences(better do the math first...)

"If any of you will still suffer inner groove distortion....... well, don't worry that happens. Move your tonearm, rotate the cartridge. If it distorts now at the run-in grooves? Hey - be flexible. Times may be hard, but modern."

Cynicism doesn't help. Applying math does.

Best,

Frank

Dear Berlinta, it is very difficult to say something "straight", if your post is not approved by the moderator and therefor never actually posted (which happened with several of my posts in the dispute about the turntable drives when I was "against the gang" - thats why I moved out of that discussion).

Galileo was an analogy of course, as were the windmills - but I think my point is clear.

For many small audio business today the online forums are the best way to marketing their product(s).
To do so, they must maintain their status of authority in the segment of the audio market their product is located.
This is legitimate - of course.
When this status is endangered in any way, it becomes an ego battle very soon - quod erat demonstrantum in the discourse about the bearing friction which became a dispute about turntable motor drives in general.