Tranfiguration Orpheus description

Hi Raul,

I guess you really had something to say since your response got posted twice! :) Just kidding, I know you did some editing.

Doug did express much of the same reservations that you did concerning such a quick cartridge comparison. I think you did a very good job of giving the details of those concerns. In regards to the LF response of Doug's system I can tell you that his system system has plenty of chest vibrating low end response. Perhaps not what you would expect from a subwoofer, but still plenty deep and strong. I'm curious why you think there is something wrong with Doug's phono stage since the 47K loading sounded shrill in the HF. Isn't that what one would expect when loading an MC that much? I know from my own experineces that 47K usually makes things sound much like and old transistor radio. In fact, if 47K sounds good in Andrew's phonostage I have to wonder if that load is really being applied.

Ignoring the snipping that has occured, it does seem to me that it would be fun to re-visit the "O" after a few hundred hours of break-in. By then I hope to have my XV-1s broken in as well so perhaps there could be comparison of the 3 that may help some to grasp the differences in these cartridges. I know it would help me immensely!

Hi Raul,

Thanks for your insights. We understand this "test" was fairly useless, especially given the low hours on Andrew's cartridge. Very true.

Andrew's speakers go lower than mine, but when I described bass differences I described what we DID hear, not what we didn't. One cartridge produced strong, tuneful and articulate bass down to the lower limit of the system. The other had solid but somewhat "one-note" bass, down to that same limit. Again, this may easily improve with break in or on another tonearm, but the differences we heard were between the two cartridges.

We performed our "VTA madness for each LP" with the Orpheus just as carefully as with our own cartridge. Andrew heard the differences and agreed that Paul had found the right spot.

My phono stage has no known problems at 47K. I've listened to six or eight cartridges through those inputs and the performance has always been exemplary, subject only to the fact that 47K is not optimal for most LOMC's, as you know. The Orpheus's upper mids and lower highs were peaky, just what you'd expect from a low hours, 2.5 ohm cartridge at 47K. This is not a flaw in the Orpheus or the phono stage, it's normal behavior. Nsgarch, a Tranny user, recommends much lower impedances and I agree with him. Other than finding the Orpheus's ideal impedance once it's fully broken in, this is a non-issue. Why Andrew's phono stage doesn't produce a rising top end at 47K I do not know, since I'm quite unfamiliar with it.

We have not dissed the Orpheus. If we hadn't had a UNIverse to compare, its thicker bass and slightly blended inner harmonics could have gone unnoticed. The Orpheus is a good cartridge that does nothing obviously wrong, as I said. It simply wasn't (at this stage in its life) able to match the clarity, low noise floor, microdynamics and "eery" realism of the ZYX. That may change next week or next month or never, so this comparison was just a snapshot in time - "useless" in the long run.

We also said nothing about the Orpheus vs. the V, the W or any other cartridge. I have no reason to doubt SirSpeedy's enthusiastic report of the new model's superiority over its predecessors, or your characterization of them based on your own experience. But you have not compared them with a UNIverse either...

rzed,
What argument? It's more like a tempest in a teacup.

The three people who were actually here all heard the same thing. The people disagreeing were hundreds of miles away and they're both Tranny owners. Partisanship from a distance seems too obvious to require comment or rebuttal.

If the phonostage which is currently owned by Doug is that good to discern the level of performance of these top cartridges to that slight differentiation, than I urge it to be exlusively produced and made available to that small little crazy group of people like us.

It is available, by custom order, for anyone crazy enough to want a reference level, full-function preamp for 1/2 - 1/3 the cost of commercial units that it routinely outplays. (Raul also uses a very special custom preamp, for similar reasons.) Dan_Ed sold his Aesthetix gear one week after hearing our Alaap and ordered one for himself, which he's now enjoying mightily. The two requirements of an owner are that he love music and be someone we'd enjoy having around to dinner. Most of the people on this thread would qualify.

Doug

I am sure that Doug would want the UNIverse to be better than the “O” since he has invested in the UNIverse ...

Larry, I'm not invested with an expensive cartridge (yet) and I don't have a lot of dog in this fight, but I'm gonna disagree with your apologism. In contrast to the above quote, I don't see this as a zero sum game and I'll suggest it is counterproductive to turn the discussion into winners and losers. And yes, I am likewise bothered by the constant drumbeat of "my stuff is the best". It comes across to me as hucksterism. Besides, my stuff is best. :-)

Doug, your dismissive tone raised my hackels. I don't question integrity or intent - thats just what I felt when I read your 'review'. It came across as "we have golden ears and this thing is flawed". Indirect analogies like the one made between the Orpheus and the PV-11 did not sit well. In the run-up of excitement and anticipation, what reaction did you expect? Even though they were stated in an irritating way, I got value from your comments and I appreciate your taking the time to write them and will agree with Larry that I look forward to your sharing further experience. Whether your observations prove the exception or the definitive pronouncement or something in between, at this point I think we need more input.

No other reports I've read indicate the same level of sonic abberration from the O, and Transfiguration has a proven ability to make excellent cartridges. Sure it may turn out to be turd - wouldn't be the first mistake in high-end audio - but we're not there yet. It would be really valuable to hear a comparison done in some different tonearms. Perhaps the Triplanar does not drain well the very frequencies the Orpheus may not damp; perhaps like the Universe, the O may be arm sensitive; perhaps Tranny's sound great in Phantoms but not so great in Ikedas, etc. etc. etc. Maybe under optimal conditions the Uni actually earns its $2k premium. I'm sure there are combinations for every cartridge and tonearm that show both well and poorly. That's why I suggest we be sensitive to context, and not too quick to speak with finality. I read Raul's remarks here as spot-on.

Few of us would say "I get more enjoyment listening to my stereo than you do yours". So let's agree to pull back a bit from one-upmanship about equipment. No one wants to make a mistake with an expensive purchase, but that doesn't mean there has to be only one 'best'. Likewise, as Speedy says, debate is good and no reason not to 'have at it'. I offer that we share a common enjoyment of music and there are lots of different routes to an enjoyable hobby. By the time you get to page 3, these threads usually exhibit a bit of testiness, so I suppose we're right on schedule. ;->

Cheers,
Tim

Dear Dan: The Andrew Dunlavy Audio Labs SC-IVa speakers are almost full range and only a subwoofer system could beat it in the bass regard.

The differences in the quality sound perception ( everything else the same ) between a full range system and one like the Doug one is huge ( I'm not saying that the Dou system was not a good one, I'm sure it is. ) not only in the low bass reproduction but all over the frequency range including sounstage. That last one or one and a half music octave makes a huge difference and those differences are for the better. When you hear it you can't live with out it and ( like Andrew ) when you have it you can discern better on the music and this fact has a very simple reason: who could have better music perception: one person that the only music that he heard is " live music " or a person that the only music that he heard is through an audio system?, now: who could have better music perception ( all things the same ), one person that heard always music through a full range system than other person that heard always through a non full range system?

Doug knows that one of my old " feelings " ( good feelings ) about his system always was and still is the limited bass frequency range response that had his 803's, but today I know that he can't do almost nothing about because its place space limitations.

About the 47K it is difficult for sure to know where is the problem but at least in the Andrew CAT ( btw, in my Essential 3150 I never had that kind of problem ) the problem does not exist and that's why I " feel " that the problem is in the Doug unit and yes Dan we usually hear a brightness at 47K but I think that was not the problem from what Doug and Andrew posted. What is sure is that the Andrew O is incompatible with the Doug unit at 47K .

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.