Transmission Line Bass


As a long time proponent of good bass without subs, I like tinkering with different ways of approching the age old problem of recreating all energy below 100Hz.
Seriously, if you look at loudspeaker responses, everything seems goes to hell just below that point, swinging wildly in output response, almost independent of many of the typical factors that would be indicators of performance.
So, the question.
Who among us has had extensive Transmission Line Bass Experience in listening, (like me with the IMF's in days gone by, with Bud Fried being a wonderful mentor to me).
In Jim Thiel's lab, one time he told me 'candidly' that Transmission Line Designs 'in theory' don't work. (Another discussion for another time). But he, like me was a bass freak of the first order, loving a rich full bottom end, hence some of his equalized designs early on. They were an all out attempt to bend the laws of physics.
So, what do we think of Transmission Line bass--so, if you're familiar with the sonics though actual listening, and can express first hand opinions let us hear your impressions of the differences between ported, passive radiators and transmission.

Thanks in advance...

Larry
lrsky
I have a transmission line speaker built by Serious Stereo which uses the Altec 604 duplex driver and 2 bottom vents. I must say that the bass is much better than the other ported speakers I have had in the past. It goes down into the mid 20hz before starting to roll off. It is very tight and nuanced. The downside is that the enclosure is 11 cubic feet so the speaker has a rather low WAF.
I have Fried Studio 7's. I love the transmission line bass. It just sounds more authentic, not bloated or artificial in any way. Some here cite size as limiter and my Fried's are pretty substantial, but you can get good TL bass with smaller enclosures and folding of the transmission line. Another plus for TL enclosures, is because the internal transmission line construction naturally lends itself to a stiffer cabinet.

Ben
I own or have owned 2 TL systems. Both produce bass of very high caliber IMO. The speakers are the Intuitive Design Summit (no longer own) and the Fried C3/L monitors with Fried D2 subs currently in a second system. Both the C3/L and the D2 are TL loaded. I found the bass of both speaker systems to have excellent pitch definition as well as proper weight. I don't hear bloat or overhang with the Fried's or the Summits. Both systems are very dynamic. I do not know if the TL loading plays a part in that or not, but to my ears they sound very natural and convincing thru out the bass.
Dodgealum,
You do know I wasn't saying that emperically, you didn't reference live music, right? It's just that very few people really have that inner reference, and sonic memory. I liken it to perfect pitch, or relative pitch...rare and unusual talent. I'm fortunate, in that I can hear, and remember...your comments are far from being unusual, hence the question. Its not a 'mild' complaint, almost a 'love it or hate it', kind of thing, so far, and you expressed a very valid, "I don't like it", which should probably should be, "I don't like WHAT I've heard SO FAR." I personally LOVED it, and was a little disappointed in the electronic sound of the equalized THIEL 03as that replaced my beloved IMF's, back in the day. I became accustomed to it, sort of like having a wife who smokes--you learn to look past it, I suppose. Older now, I have a smaller window of 'looking past', and want to really do it right.
My LSA's have good bass, and with the mosterous Air Core's that we used, and great caps, very tuneful. But, I want to move to the 'next and better thing'.
I'll tell you what's wierd...is how 'right' the bass on the A-1 Sound Labs was--no cabinet noises, obviously, perfect phase, perfect time alignment--and it just sounded right. Maybe I want an electrostatic with that kind of bass response...I DID love it. They are so damn underrated in EVERY WAY!

Larry
Csmgolf,
See, your comments are very 'spot on' as to what I experienced. See Dodge, another, like it to offset. This is what's maddening.

Larry