Tubes vs Solid State - Imaging, Soundstaging, 3D

Mechans - I am using an Octave V40se with Svetlana Winged C EL34s. The Gold Lions were reissues in a Cary SLI-80 signature.

Newbee - While I might not have broad based listening skills that it may take a decade or more to develop, I have owned 20+ good speakers (1-5k) and just about as many amps/integrateds (1-5k). I'm really interested to find out how a tube amp could bring me the clarity and realism I sense from SS gear. When I switch from tube to SS, I often experience a relief, as if the sound is coming into focus.

Islandmandan - I plan to try some Svetlana Winged C KT88s which I have heard are a great match with Octave. Perhaps I just haven't heard enough tubes. I will say that the EL34s are very smooth and easy to listen to. I also would not say that I could recognize a "tubey sound" but when I switch back to SS, I definitely sense a change (that I happen to like).

A couple of questions, first of all, are we comparing apples with apples? That means are you comparing solid state integrated amps with the two tube integrated amps that you are using? Separates could make a difference in what you are hearing. I have even noticed that monoblock amps offer a clearer image and larger soundstage than their stereo counterparts.

Secondly, did you experiment with any of the small signal tubes? From my experiences with tube integrated amplifiers, changing the small signal tubes makes a much bigger difference to the sound than changing the power tubes. Try changing the 6922/ECC83/6SN7's in the Cary or Octave, you may have better results than playing with the power tubes.

What JMCgrogan2 sez, except in my experience some power tubes are more linear in tone than others. With those more 'linear' tubes, such as the GL KT88's or SED 6550's I would agree that small tubes can make a greater difference than the two power tubes would make on their own. But with the SED KT88s, which are not so linear, i.e. increased upper bass and extended highs, small tubes matching is essential, as is amp matching. I've used SED KT88s as well as SED 6550's, SED EL34's, and SED 6L6GC's for some years and while I really enjoy the KT88's when they work (as they do now in one of my amps) as often I've not been able to dial them in using other amps, especially those with a more modern design ('neutral' tone, such as ARCs etc). I know nothing about your amps but I didn't care for the KT88's at all in my Cary mono's, but found the 6550's quite acceptable.

If you want a crystal clear toned linear tube, if you can use it, you might find the SED 6L6GC to your liking. It lacks the power of the 6550/KT88 and the mid-range warmth of the EL34, but it has clarity in spades through out the FR.

BTW, what kind of speakers are you using? Do you feel you have maximized your set up opportunities so that they are positioned to sound their best. In a 'dark' sounding room I can imagine that a tubed amp/speaker combo might sound less energized and a SS amp sound better, especially if you speakers are voiced on the warm side of neutral.

I suspect we all listen for different things. My experience has been that tubes and solid state do different things well at the lower end of price then struggle to converge at the higher end

Solid state has dynamics, biting detail, can rock the house
Tubes have mid range rectitude, vivid tone colors, can make you weep with the emotion of sung story.

To be honest image is the last thing I listen for; what good is a razor sharp spatial location if the instrument doesn't sound real for tone color, like its in the room with you. If that's right, image seems to follow at its heels

Having used Tube based preamp(s) for years, and in general having avoided like the plague the notion of Tube based power Amplifier(s), I got a bit of an awakening recently.

My reason for avoiding Tube based power amps are all the standard reasons, maintenance, heat etc.etc.

A perfect storm recently occurred in my life and for whatever reason I decided to replace my ss monoblocks with tube based monoblocks.

I was literally shocked at the difference! I would never have guessed that in 2013 there could be this much variation between great SS and great Tube electronics.

Different strokes and all, so I'm not even going to enter into any kind of tube/vs ss and which is "best". suffice it to say I strongly prefer the tubes. Others could and I'm sure would prefer the SS.

Personally, I see NO downside whatsoever to the tube amps. (other than of course heat, but my old SS amps were high-bias, and they threw a fair amount of heat also) Bass, imaging, focus, balance, depth are all as good or better in the tube amp. And, there is simply as one would expect FAR more what I call "harmonic richness" to the music. Call it euphoric coloration or whatever you want, the tube amp simply adds and/or extracts more meat on the bones of the music. Violin is a perfect example, it's a different instrument all of a sudden.

The added tube "lushness" would I thought always come at the expense of some level of detail. Not in this case, These are razor sharp, with no added harshness.

Just my own personal 2cents worth, I only wish I'd have done this years ago!