Turntable speed accuracy

Dear Halcro: A friend of mine brought his Timeline with him at my place two-trhee days ago and we made some tests in my Denon DP75 and both Acoustic Signature's.

We found out that DP-75 was and is right on target but the AS were off even that through a strobe showed were fine. So I dialed through the Timeline, something that's very simple task on the AS motor controler through trimpots. We tested with and with out cartridge playback and things were the same: non detected speed fluctuation because stylus drag ( two on the Denon. )

Before the test I was a little " worried " about the Denon becuase has no external pitch control as the DP-80, fortunately runs splendid.

Now, through the AS and before we aligned with the Timeline we heard three specific tracks : before and after correction and we were unaware to hear differences even that we " want " it and looking for.

Seems to me that depend how wide the speed is off we can or we can't hear differences and obviously depend on our skills/knowledge and system.

Btw, as Lewm posted every TT has a speed controler by design because is the way the TT speed was set up from factory. The DP-75 certainly has it internally as the Technics ones and every other TT.

Yes, I agree with some of you that posted that the primary target on a TT design is speed accuracy and speed stability, with out these there is no TT.

No, I don't think, for that price, that the Timeline is a must to have especially because with the AS we can't detect any differences but as you in other TT set ups things could be different and the Timeline is a necessary tool. Good trained ears and high knowledge audio/music level can tell you the whole " history " maybe better than the Timeline.

Anyway, worth those experiences I had.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear Raul,
It's good to get your feedback.
It appears that your Acoustic Signature keeps consistent speed (without any stylus drag).......so I agree with you wholeheartedly that absolutely correct speed as in 33.3333rpm is not essential.
And if you read some previous posts.....you will see that is discussed at some length?
It's interesting to read that your Denon is 'spot-on'......as so far.......it seems from anecdotal evidence on this thread.......direct drives are the only ones which consistently can make this claim?

I also agree with you...that well trained ears are our best tools :^)
Cheers
Henry

Ummm..., Dev, I think you took what I wrote and ran away with it. You can't have it both ways; either a turntable is given to you with the possibility to adjust its speed and therefore correct for any inaccuracy, or not. In the latter case, the turntable had darn well be speed-stable under all conditions, because there is nothing you can do about it. I take it as a virtue that the Lenco mechanism provides an easy way to adjust speed over a very wide range.

By the way, I meant to convey that I was too lazy to do a fine adjustment of the idler wheel, to get my Lenco back to exact speed, so I did it with the Walker motor controller. Since the needed correction was tiny, it was not an issue to do it with the Walker, and I had been meaning to re-insert it in the system in any case, to isolate the Lenco motor so as to block EMI from getting into the AC feeding my preamp.

Then, too, there are two different issues: speed adjustability and stability with no load vs speed stability under the actual condition of playing an LP. That latter property has more to do with torque, compliance in the drive system, platter mass, presence of a servo feedback loop (really only a property of DD turntables), etc. I've been saying this over and over. I guess if you don't like the Lenco, that's cool, but I think you are criticizing it for the wrong reasons. Have you ever heard an LP being played on one? They impart great clarity and drive for a fraction of the cost of other tt's that sound as good (unless you buy a dolled-up version). Isn't that why we are here? I recommend that you listen to a "street version", if possible, before you dismiss the idea.

Henry, You wrote, "well trained ears are our best tools". Did you read my story about listening to my Lenco when it was going too slow, where I heard it as a slowing of tempo and my friend heard it as a flattening of pitch. Two pairs of "well-trained" ears that heard the same music in different ways.

Lew,
You both 'heard' it :^)
I think our descriptive language pertaining to audio......is subjective and ill-defined by convention?
I also have doubts that others here......really understand what people mean when they attempt to describe their impressions? :^)
Sorry......I missed your Lenco story. Is there a link?

Here is a link: Go back up the thread two or three posts of mine, and you will find it. Anyway, there is no need, because I just summed up the story. The oddity is that he claims to be unable to sing a single note but to have a perfect sense of pitch. OTOH, I sing jazz informally and sometimes formally but sensed the tempo error, not the pitch error.

A lot of good jazz singers sing on the low edge of the note, if you know what I mean. (I refer here to real professionals, not me. If I do it, it is a mistake.) It imparts a blue-sy feel. (Examples might be Betty Carter, Chris Connor, Kurt Elling.) Perhaps that is why I was not hearing the pitch error. Kind of like tuning an orchestra to 438Hz instead of 440Hz.