Turntable speed accuracy

Dev, I hope I did not discourage you to pursue the Lenco. It's a great sounding turntable although I never had the time nor effort to set it up properly but I have friends who got good results from adding a little elbow grease.

For an idler design, it is very quiet, thanks to the brilliant simplicity, its quality core components: motor, bearing, and platter. Its idler wheel is also the thinnest and lightest among idler-drive designs and that might partly contribute to its silent running. The idler wheel is also quite stiff and low compliant compare to Garrard, Thorens, Rek-o-kut, etc... and consequently, I believe, less "meaty" sounding, which can be a plus to some people. Admittedly, I quite like that beefy tone on idler tables with thick fat wheels but they are also harder to tame the noise, especially if they use a huge fast running motor, eg, that monstrous Ashland motor in the ROK or McCurdy or Russco. To me the Garrard definitely has a juicier tone than the Lenco but it's not as quiet. Lenco is also, I believe, easier to obtain correct stable speed. My experience is that the thickness, compliance, and among of rubber of the wheel correlate with the tone and tonal balance. (Let's not get into the audio political correctness of neutral game, "my table is more Neutral than your table" pissing contest. I cringed whenever audio reviewer using that term. I equate "neutral" with neutered.) I still marvel at the enormous bass dynamic and heft of a McCurdy idler table with a huge motor...but, alas, it was really noisy--good luck taming that beast!

Anyway, if the noise issue is taken care of, idler tables are great musical machines and can get quite addictive with its ballsy tone... other tables (like some Scottish sacred cow) might sound wimpy as the musicians are playing with one testicle missing. If the table pass the Timeline test, would that be balls to wall? :-)

Sigh, so many toys so little time...

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Hiho, FWIW, I use a 2nd generation PTP. As you know, it has provision for sliding the idler wheel without removing the platter; one is supposed to leave the two bolts under the platter slightly loose and tighten down only the one that is visible and accessible with the platter in place. That way, you can slide the idler by loosening only the one accessible bolt. However, I am not following that directive. I thought I was better off to get the speed as close to perfect as possible, with all bolts loose, and then to tighten down all 3 of them very firmly. From then on, I make fine adjustments to speed via the Walker Motor Controller. As you know also, the next mod was to remove the rubber bushing at the anchor point of the idler arm, so as to disallow even that small amount of play at its pivot. I have not done that, in the belief that there is some benefit to dissipating vibrational energy in the idler arm itself, by letting the arm "rattle" a little bit, so energy is not reflected back into the idler and thence into the platter. It's all a head game, because I have no data either way. I do like what I've got, however.

Lewm,
Which of the 3 tt's the Lenco L75, Technics SP10mk3, Kenwood L07D do you find the most musically satisfying. Have you ended up with same or different sounding decks, or through choice of arm/cartridge deliberately tried to dial in different strengths ? Which one assuming all are speed accurate do you feel gets the most off the record.

Dover, Cannot fairly answer any of those questions yet. I love them all in different ways, at this moment. With the Lenco, you want to root for it, because it is relatively inexpensive. If I thought I could live with only the Lenco, I could sell the others and put several thousand bucks in the bank (or elsewhere in my audio system). As Raul is fond of noting (and i agree), you cannot compare turntables when the tonearm(s) and cartridges are all different. But it would surprise me if the Lenco was the best of these three (or these four, if you include the DP80).

Lewm: " As you know also, the next mod was to remove the rubber bushing at the anchor point of the idler arm, so as to disallow even that small amount of play at its pivot. I have not done that, in the belief that there is some benefit to dissipating vibrational energy in the idler arm itself, by letting the arm "rattle" a little bit, so energy is not reflected back into the idler and thence into the platter. It's all a head game, because I have no data either way."

It is, indeed, a head game. Sometimes I wonder if we make rigid on all the linkages such as the idler arm, rubber bushing, to not allow any flexing, will the speed be even more stable and what will happen to the sound. The brilliance of the Lenco is in the use of tension: the idler arm pressing on the motor, the spring pulling the wheel towards to motor shaft, and 3 point suspension pushing up the motor towards wheel and then the platter. It's in this chain of tension of push and pull that makes the whole system work in unison. It's a complex and zen system at the same time. I wonder if making any one or all part(s) rigid will ruin this system of tension and its sound. Or it might improve it. I do not know... but it's a fun head game. :-)

To me the idea of direct drive having only one single moving part is even more zen.... and that one moving part rotates at 33.33rpm is super cool... at least it runs circle around Art Dudley's head. ;-)

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