Upgrade from TW Acustic Raven AC-3 to what?

First off, let me state that I do not own a TW Acustic Raven, nor do I profess to know its particular sonic character. But over the years I have come to realise how critical proper set-up is. Also, please don't take this as a suggestion that you you are less than expert in system set-up. However, before you venture to spend $50k on a TT, you just might experiment with adjusting VTA and VTF. For example I have a VPI Aries 2 with dual motor/flywheel, a JMW 10.5 and Transfiguration Temper W. Clearly not in the league of the AC-3, but more than respectable. For years I set the VTF to 1.9 grams. The Trannie specs suggest optimal tracking force is 1.8, but VPI manual advises to add .1 gram if you use damping fluid in the well. Also, in setting VTA, I would set the arm (head shell) parallel to the platter and tip it back maybe a quarter of a turn on the VTA tower.

For whatever reason, I decided to experiment and drop the back of the arm another half turn or so and jump the VTF to 1.95 (I use a digital scale). The change was transcendental. I have since dropped the arm back another quarter turn and increased VTF to 1.985. I don't think this has improved the sound any, but since I live in the Northeast and the humidity has lifted (system is in the basement), I had lost some of the magic I heard earlier. The increased settings have merely compensated. I would never have believed my system capable of the performance I have achieved. I am actually afraid to "upgrade". I just have the feeling the system is punching way above its weight class.

The purpose of this tale is to suggest that before you look to greener pastures, you tweek your table, even if it takes you to the extremes of the manufacturers specs. You might be amazed at the improvement chaging these parameters may bring.

Hi Jfrech, good as the AC-3 may be, there must be room for improvement, otherwise TW wouldnt have come up with the Black Knight, which I haven't heard :). i will be interested to hear from people who have compared AC-3 and the Black Knight.
Hi Acoustat6, I haven't heard a "modern" DD turntable. Not sure about Lenco or Technics.
Hi Stew3859, in my 2 years with the TT, I have done plenty of tweaking with it. Besides the usual tracking force, VTA, loading, also tried different platforms, phono stage, cables, etc. Regardless of tweaks, the AC-3 is not neutral or utterly transparent. While it is voluptous, beautiful and ripe, it is dark sounding, which kind of reminds me of the Sonus faber Stradivari speakers. I wish it could image better too.

Alectiong,

I would heed Stew3859's advice and suggest making sure that your system is optimally set up. Not just the analog front end, but everything (i.e. check connections, wire placement, room acoustics, etc.). Perhaps it is not the analog front end but another set up factor contributing to your dissatisfaction.

Even without listing the other components in your system, I am sure you have invested a considerable sum of money and effort and it would be a shame to commit more resources if what you have is not optimized. To that end, I would consider having someone adept at set up assist you, as much to bring a fresh perspective and validate what you are hearing. My hunch is that whomever sold you the analog front end would be willing to help. This would certainly be cheaper than buying and selling more equipment (and allow you to purchase more LPs).

However, if you still wish to explore other systems, I can enthusiastically recommend the Galibier Stelvio with the soon to be released TALEA tonearm (http://joelfdurand.com/Tonearm_project/index.html). Feel free to PM if interested.

Good luck and please let everyone know your outcome.

Regards

Well, unfortunately it is not the way to success (whatever this will be) to think, that a design has to be better when it is more expensive. Probably you should look for a better design instead of a more expensive one.

I guess you can try Clearaudio. To some Clearaudio tables sound analytical to them. To me, it is very spacious and focused, but be careful matching it with the right equipment. In my opinion, Clearaudio stuff is usually very detailed, spacious and open sounding. Again, some say it is analtyical.