Upgrading sub to get a live feel.

Hello ihor,

     Cool, it's a bit difficult to put into words and I'm glad you understood.  I can help you with the positioning and proper setting of the volume, crossover frequencies and phase controls when you get your third sub. Just send me a personal message or post again on this thread when you're ready.

Tim

@mcreyn --

phusis,

Tapped horns are awesome, make mine a DTS-10.

They are indeed, but few know of this - certainly outside the Avsforum and similar-ish sites where bass performance is explored rather uninhibitedly. Tapped Horns are bandwidth limited in their upper range (depending on the tune), and one needs to know what he/she is dealing with and the specific context in which they’re to be implemented to make the most of them. Once you do, and accept size is inescapable, it’s obvious bass isn’t just bass - irrespective of the configuration.

The DTS-10 is a beast. I’d give up a few Hz in the bottom end and go with the TH-50 instead (or even a few Hz more to favor Josh Ricci’s B&C 21"-fitted Othorn), but that’s just me ;) My own MicroWrecker’s are very much influenced by the TH-50, with a tune in the same ballpark as well.

I am not a big fan of 6th order enclosures, they lean towards a narrow frequency range and have to built perfectly to specification or it all falls apart. For high output with limited space, 6th order enclosures have a place. There is a reason the SPL car guys use them. I did build and use a 4th order bandbass for a car for several years, but that was when power was limited and it gave good output for the space.

Sorry I wasn’t clear on this, but I had Josh Ricci’s Skhorn and Skrams in mind when I made mentioned of the 6th order bandpass iterations, rather than making a generalized statement. Otherwise I take it you are absolutely right in your observations, apart from pointing out that Ricci’s designs here are actually less bandwidth limited in the upper end compared to tapped horns.

I wouldn’t mention any of the sub designs brought about here (in pairs, preferably, with more of them being a bonus if space permits) if I didn’t believe they’d be potentially excellent combos with the OP’s future main speaker consideration. Properly implemented he’d have at least 25Hz honest extension and a totally effortless, smooth and "live" bass with proper energy in the midbass. 

I’d stress that this is about acquiring the best possible bass response and integration, and that a vital part of this is attained via ample headroom (from great sub designs) to sport extremely low THD, even at "full chat." Headroom is hugely important; to have the SPL capacity way beyond what one needs, as it both relaxes and empowers the presentation.

Got a few more hours in last night, 

Sub set up is now staggered, with one PB against the wall distance between speaker and seating position, one PB a little behind the seating position. 

Turned down the PBs to 50Hz and volume set to 30%. 

The speaker still feel larger, but less so now. 

Bass blends well at this point, but i am still experiencing a tiny bit of harshness in the music. Noticeable in the lower-mid/upper bass regions.  It lacks the cohesiveness of my original set up.   

I think this evening I will try to turn down the SB too and see if that helps. 

Hello Watcher,

     Sorry about mcreyn and phusis having a discussion on the benefits of horn tapped subs in the middle of your thread.  I just found out they're both longtime members of the Church of Latter Day Bass. A little rude but no big deal.
     I'm going to give you a step by step procedure for how to position each of the four subs and set the controls on each very soon but I need to know a few things before we get started to make sure we have everything we'll need:

1. What are the brand and model numbers of your other components?  I need to know whether you're using an AV receiver, integrated amp or preamp and power amp setup.

2. How do you currently have both of your SB-1000s connected? I need to know what method, line level or speaker level connections, you currently use and how you planned to connect all four subs.  If you don't already have a plan, I'll figure it out but it may require you buying a few things before we can begin.

3.  Are your JBL 4319 main speakers positioned on the floor, on stands or a different method?

    Depending on your other components, mainly your amp, we need to determine whether you should limit the bass reproduced or run them full range. W'll pick backup once you give me your answers to my 


Tim

1. What are the brand and model numbers of your other components? I need to know whether you're using an AV receiver, integrated amp or preamp and power amp setup.

Resonessence Mirus DAC > Pathos Atrium Preamp > Odyssey Kismet Mono-Block
 
2. How do you currently have both of your SB-1000s connected? I need to know what method, line level or speaker level connections, you currently use and how you planned to connect all four subs. If you don't already have a plan, I'll figure it out but it may require you buying a few things before we can begin.

SB are connected using speaker level input, the PB are tapping the speaker level from the SB. 

3. Are your JBL 4319 main speakers positioned on the floor, on stands or a different method?

The speaker currently sit on top of the SB 

The amp has pretty big bass, the DAC also has very detailed and articulated bass, the preamp is neutral.