Upgrading to a stand alone DAC


I have the upgrade bug..lol.  I am considering purchasing a stand alone DAC as 60% of my listening is thru my CD player (NAD C568).  This was purchased new 3 years ago for $799.00.  My budget would be $1500.  Rest of system is the Marantz Ruby KI integrated amp and the Reference 3A de capo speakers.  Would I hear a significant difference at this price point?

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I've have the Topping D90 AKM which is about 5 yr old technology.  I have never felt like this is the component I should upgrade.  Bass, detail, quiet, neutral are what I like.  The display appears to be going bad so I have been looking around. 

Denafrips is not with Vinshine anymore.  I see lots of the brand for sale.  Maybe they just sell more.  I have not tried an R2R DAC so I don't have an opinion. 

Laiv is one I see lots of buzz about.  Positive reviews.  No used yet.

Audio GD was highly regarded but now don't hear anything.

Bel Canto, Border Patrol, Benchmark, Audio Mirror, Audio Research are all established brands with varied sound and design.  Depending on your taste.

soix, not to be too generic, I am looking to increase soundstage and to pull out more details

A better DAC could very well extract more detail (of an incremental level), especially if it’s one that has a very low noise floor. It could also expand perceived soundstage width if it applies noise shaping and/or adds harmonic distortions. The latter can cause other detriments though. BTW, the original Schiit Yggdrasil did exactly that, it had poor linearity and barely achieved 16 bit resolution. That’s how it managed to sound so “different” from other DACs of its era.

Nine times out of ten, the best way to increase soundstage width is to adjust speaker placement and/or add room treatments. At a similar rate, the best way to get more actual detail (as opposed to perceived detail that one only notices because of neglect to match volume when judging the new component against the old) is by way of a speaker upgrade.

That isn’t to say a standalone DAC won’t yield some improvement over your CD player. I am merely suggesting it might not give you the “wow” factor you are likely seeking.

I realize it’s an unpopular sentiment around here, but it’s my belief and experience that digital sources and associated cabling produce some of the lowest ROI in a system. Let’s say one has a max budget of $1500 they can invest in upgrading their system. In my experience, that person would likely be much better off if they were to allocate $300-$500 of that budget toward a objectively transparent “Chi-Fi” DAC, and the rest toward new speakers, or simply allocate the entire sum to new speakers (especially speakers with higher quality drivers). Keep in mind that most dealer-sold speakers under ≈$6K/pair are equipped with very mediocre drivers. I can build a $2K/pair speaker kit from the likes of Madisound that will wipe the floor with many $5K speakers and yield far higher ROI than would any DAC upgrade at any price.

Sorry for the tangent, but hopefully that somewhat explains my stance on this subject and why I believe hobbyists are often heading down the wrong path for achieving their goals. I get why listeners like to “upgrade” stuff like DACs and cables—it’s a much easier endeavor than going out and auditioning speakers and toying with setup once you find the right pair, then selling/shipping the old ones to a new owner. Swapping DACs is nearly effortless by comparison. Unfortunately, the latter is not where most systems have a bottleneck, not by a long shot.

For a reference, the speakers currently in my primary system retail for $11K, and compete favorably against >$15K speakers from other brands. Despite the disparity in price, I have zero doubt my $500 Topping is up to task. Even in my situation, I would rather apply $1500 of disposable income toward saving for a pair of $35K Rockport speakers rather than “upgrading” my DAC.

Almost forgot the requisite disclaimer: “your mileage may vary.” There, now others can hopefully read this post without busting their BP cuffs. wink

 

 

 

In terms of your budget, I would second the suggestions for looking at Schiitt DACs.  I have a Gungnir multibit that I like quite a bit. I also have a Mytek Liberty II and I've enjoyed that but the top end has to be tamed a little bit, so depends on system synergy. I also personally don't love the user interface on the Liberty, but I do like its being fully featured with a top of the line chip. 

If they make any difference at all, IMHO digital cables and similar tweaks would be quite secondary in terms of priority - get a well constructed DAC first and then see if you need to worry about that stuff with a later separate budget. 

And I agree that speakers can make the biggest change in a system, and even adjusting their toe-in can have a huge impact. 

@helomech  +1

Many of these  DACs have very inexpensive IC chips costing less then $1. Cost restraint prevents them from using discreet op/amps.

An inexpensive "Chi-Fi" DAC can be had for as little as $300 with an interchangeable op/amp chip option (Aune X8 with balanced outputs) and then for an additional $100 add a Sparkos ss2590 DISCREET op amp runs in Class A.  For a total of around $400 it's unbelievably good. 

or

(For twice the price) Geshelli socketed J2S and add the Sparkos or Burson Vivid discreet op amp.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Schiit  come out with a socket replaceable DAC op/amp feature in the near future.

Up grades can be had by simply plugging in a new chip instead of buying a whole new DAC.

The money you saved could then go into better speakers yielding a far higher performance level. Heck, maybe you won't even need new speakers!

 

 

I’d like to second the Bifrost 2 recommendation.  I went from using my NAD C568 CD player to the Bifrost, which I later upgraded to the Bifrost 2/64.  I could definitely tell a difference moving from the internal DAC in the CD player to a a stand-alone DAC.  The upgrade to the 2.64 added a modest improvement.  I can only imagine that the Yggy by Schiit would be yet another step up.