USB SQ, what can one expect

Cerrot: You're now making a number of assumptions that I don't feel are contributing to any meaningful conversations. Plus, your obstinance around your opinion of USB does a disservice to others who ARE looking for meaningful advice and superb sound.

First, I use USB for my sound. If I wasn't getting absolutely spectacular results -- almost too good to stand, actually -- then I might be prone to taking your "advice" while thinking, "Man, what a dumb cluck I've been." USB is an implementation found in many DACs and servers that stand at the highest level of praise, and while that implementation must be treated well and carefully for best results, thousands of other people are likely pretty darned happy with their choices.

The other ASSumption is that one must be "afraid to open up" one's computer. Gotcha there, too: I used to work for major computer vendors and later had a consulting practice, and could field-strip and rebuild a PC or Mac in record time... I wasn't at all afraid. So, your argument falls rather flat, no?

Perhaps you should read Ken Wilber's "No Boundary." One key premise in the book is that any boundary line represents a potential battle line. To so blithely stand by the premise that all USB implementations are crap is to stand on one side of your artificial and possibly baseless boundary and simply confuse other people who might not have quite the same outlook or experiences that you seem to have had. As always in these matters, YMMV, and your experience/opinion should be offered to others, but perhaps not so vehemently defended.

But, you do appear to have something to defend, some emotional investment in making sure that others don't make the same dastardly mistake that you seem to know so much about. Having said my piece, I'll leave you to it.

Cerrot, Try using the IFI USB power supply and IFI purifier/conditioner. It separates the power supply from the data, quite a remarkable little product.
I'm also using a Bryston BDP-2 for the player and now utilizing its USB output.
With the IFI unit, the USB is better than the SPIF outputs.

Rhanson, I have explained the shortcomings of USB many times over the past years. My postings do actually help as the entire world has embraced usb as if it is the only (and best) solution. It is not. FAR from it. I am pointing that out. I may be the only one pointing it out. You may be comfortable at opening up a PC but the rest of the PC audio world is not as comfortable, and has settled for the rediculous notion that USB is the way to go. (Many believe it is the ONLY way to go). I have nothing to defend. Science proves my position. Audio should not be transmitted in packets. pretty simple from where I sit. So, how do we get to a stream rather than packets??? THAT is the $64,000 question! and USB is NOT the answer.

Async USB is not a continuous stream, it is broken up due to handshaking. You have no concept of the science involved. Audio is a real-time process and requires isochronous connections.

Ethernet is explicitly packetized. I have Ethernet as well as USB interfaces and they both perform well. Ethernet can have drop-outs on the network due to its packetization and out-of order arrivals. I will argue that since Ethernet is not a particularly good medium for real-time that it is not well suited to audio, since it is a real-time process.

The main advantage of Ethernet has nothing to do with packetization. The advantage is that the computer OS treats the data no differently than other data. With USB and S/PDIF, the audio stack becomes involved which usually impacts sound quality and creates computer, app and OS dependence.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Cerrot: "I have nothing to defend. Science proves my position. Audio should not be transmitted in packets. pretty simple from where I sit."

Not to pick nits, sir, but you DO have something to defend: Your position, which is stated so clearly in the above quote. (I do have a tendency to notice conflicting or internally inconsistent statements.)

I understand you've evangelized against USB as an audio solution. Perhaps, as you say, you're the only one doing so. I would agree with that, as there seem to be so many USB-based solutions that I'm compelled to think that people aren't listening.

What I would suggest, however, is, "So what?"

Maybe it's not the *best* approach, but I and perhaps others would suggest to you that the sound is pretty darned good when approached properly. I couldn't give a rat's pitoot whether it's USB, or Ethernet, or sound card, or the next big thing to come along. I'm more than delighted with my sound, and there is a general feeling that, USB limitations notwithstanding, digital playback is approaching or has approached the vaunted vinyl, and only stands to get better as time goes on.

Most people say "YMMV." Perhaps USB is not for you, and that's cool. Don't use it, then. But throwing such a huge (and wet) blanket over anything-USB is to denigrate peoples' chosen systems, and to diminish the work and accomplishments of system designers who -- despite the limitations of USB -- have developed equipment that produces world-class audio.

My position is that since people are getting excellent results from USB, then perhaps it's not such a bad thing after all. For now, I'll run with it.