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Using Test LP - curious observations

I've been tremendously enjoying my Lyra Delos with the Classic for about 1.5 yrs now, and just recently remembered I had the Hi-Fi News Analogue Test LP and got the urge to test my setup.
Here are some of my observations that came as a surprise to me:
1) Anti-skate (Bands 6,7,8,9 on side one) - the cartridge "passed" the test on Band 6 without any anti-skate, but there was audible buzzing coming from the right channel at higher amplitudes. Applying anti-skate made NO difference whatsoever to the results, whether on setting 1, 2 or 3 (most anti-skate). I prefer the sound without anti-skate so this only seemed to confirm that applying anti-skate arguably does nothing to improve the sound and likely makes it worse. It also seems to shed some light on why Harry doesn't like anti-skate.
2) Azimuth (Band 5 on side two) - My preamp has a mono switch so this seemed pretty straightforward. According to the instructions, there should be minimal (if any) mono output if the cartridge was aligned perfectly. Well, there was certainly some output, which immediately worried me, but what really left me scratching my head was the fact that no adjustment appeared to correct it, or make a significant difference. I use the Soundsmith's Counter Intuitive to fine-adjust VTF and azimuth, and after about 2 hours of a wide range of adjustments in azimuth through the CI, it was virtually impossible to determine the optimal azimuth setting, i.e., the output seemed consistently the same regardless of adjustments.

Please free to comment, share your experiences or explain my curious results. Or are they not curious?
actusreus
tonywinsc
583 posts
 
In a different post talking about tt speed accuracy, I was feeling ambitious one day and did some measurements and the impact of the record hole center on Wow and Flutter. My test record has about 0.8mm of eccentricity between the center hole and the center of the grooves. That resulted in a +/-2Hz variation in the 440Hz test tone on this record. The tonearm position was 3.5 inches from center.
actusreus OP
733 posts
 
Great feedback! I wholeheartedly agree with Doug and others who rely on actual music and their ears to set up their analog fronts. I guess, in the perfect world it'd be great to have your setup confirmed by objective tests, just like an amp or speaker getting a rave review in Stereophile and then measures perfectly on Atkinson's test bench, but we don't live a perfect world, do we?
As a comment to Nanbil's post, I don't quite understand how a better phono preamp should fix anti-skating issues. Skating is essentially a problem affecting the stylus' interaction with the record surface/grooves, not sound transmission. As an analogy, if your cartridge is misaligned, or wired out of phase, a better amp or a preamp should not fix the problem; in fact, it should actually make the errors more pronounced. A better preamp should only amplify the signal, not modify it.
Another thought on anti-skate is that reading the posts of those who use anti-skate, I should not prefer the sound without it, but I actually do. Music sounds more open and has more air to my ears than with any anti-skate applied. A friend of mine with a much more sophisticated equipment in his system also prefers his Classic without anti-skate. If it's such an objectively verifiable problem, why do some (and that's Harry Weisfeld included) don't hear any improvement with anti-skate applied? Does it mean our ears are not as sophisticated as others' who do?
manitunc
795 posts
 
I suppose if the distortion was causing an input overload on the phono preamp, then a different preamp with a higher input tolerance would seem to fix the anti skating problem.
moonglum
619 posts
 
Dear Actus....For information, to get the described benefits of zero antiskate are you currently using the recommended downforce of ~1.76g with the Delos?
One practice is to maximise the downforce or even go beyond the Manufacturers recommended range to persuade the cart to track. (I've never been convinced about the need to do this, despite persuasive arguments to the contrary, but the Delos is a rare case in which downforce overload is particularly not recommended - while I acknowledge that in theory such restraint should really apply to ALL cartridges :)
Sometimes you feel downforce overload may be correcting other problems e.g. wrong SRA. However this is only my opinion.

If indeed 1.76g, are you certain there is no bias i.e. when you balance your tonearm does it remain stationary or does it sign to one side or the other?
If it does remain stationary this can also be because friction in the bearing/s can be enough to overcome any residual bias.(Noticeable with old gimballed arms)
Best regards...
lewm
12,992 posts
 
Actusreus,
This idea may be erroneous from the get-go, but I believe (without searching for a photo) that the VPI tonearm is one of those that has the wiring sticking up from the arm tube near the pivot. If so, it may well be that the added "force" required to move the wiring along as the cartridge traverses the LP may be just enough to serve as adequate anti-skate force with your cartridge at your chosen tracking weight. Likewise for many tonearms (e.g., Reed, Talea, Grandezza) that are similarly designed.

But make no mistake, there is a skating force generated with any pivoted tonearm where the stylus does not remain constantly tangent to the groove walls (meaning head-shell offset angle is also a factor, IMO).
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