Using tube amp with electrostatic speakers.


Moons ago I started similar discussions and thought I had been given enough good advice not to approach the subject again. Here goes anyway. I've used Martin Logan electrostats for well over 30 years with quite a few different amps but have recently switched to a tube amp and dynamic speakers with which I am very satisfied.  It consists of the Cary Rocket 88R amp and Serie Reference 3 speakers. 

My brother was visiting last week and was so impressed with the sound that he decided that he might want to try a tube amp also (probably the same one as mine).  However, he is using a pair of SL3's that I gave him years ago and I'm concerned primarily about the current requirements of the Martin Logans as well as other concerns that I'm not thinking of.  I don't want him spending money on something that may not bring him improved sound so would appreciate more advice to pass on to him.  He currently uses a Rogue Audio SS amp with his SL3 speakers and, to me, it sounds very good. 
jimbreit
What a wonderful thread,  I enjoy an education on audio any time, to all the contributors, thankyou,  as much experience I have with audio,  it is delightful to learn,  cheers gentleman. 
I would only add one point to this discussion.  It is folly to talk about "tube amplifiers" and "ESL"s in general terms, because each and every tube amplifier and each and every ESL in the marketplace has its own idiosyncrasies of design that strongly influence the interaction between the two.  In my opinion, tubes and ESLs ought to be an audio match made in heaven.  (I have owned nothing but tube/ESL systems since the early 1970s.) However, in the era of solid state hegemony, many ESL companies have designed and marketed products that are tailored to work well with SS amplifiers, which usually has a corresponding negative effect on the capacity of the speaker to be driven by a tube amplifier, and/or there are designs with complex crossovers that impose impedance curves unfriendly to tube amplifiers.  Martin Logan seems to have adopted a pro-SS amplifier philosophy many decades ago.  Their original ESL, the CLS, had a nominal 16-ohm impedance and was a beautiful match with the Futterman amplifiers that I owned at that time.  They followed that up with the "CLS II", which I bought before auditioning them, just because I loved the original CLS so much.  The CLS II was a gross mismatch for an OTL tube amplifier like the Futterman, because it introduced circuitry that created an impedance as low as 2 ohms at critical midrange or upper midrange frequencies.  Zero autoformers did not exist at that time, and the mating of the CLS II with my Futtermans was a disastrous non-starter.  The moral of this story is that it behooves any buyer to educate himself as regards the technical aspects of the components he wishes to match together in one system.  There are no rules one way or the other.  

I am now using Atma-sphere amplifiers to drive Sound Labs 845PX speakers.  Frankly, this was not a perfect situation until I made some rather drastic modifications to the Sound Lab input circuit such that the speaker now presents an impedance that is 20 ohms or higher across the audio band up to about 5kHz, where it falls to about ~8 ohms and ends up at ~2 ohms at 20kHz.  (I know this, because I made the measurements myself.) As someone else pointed out, an ESL is in effect a giant capacitor, and there is no avoiding a drop in impedance at very high frequencies.  However, it is my opinion that so long as the impedance remains reasonable at least up to 10kHz, the low Z above that frequency is nothing to worry about; there is very little energy demand on the amplifier for frequencies above 10kHz, and the capacitative nature of the load should not bother a good tube design, whereas it can play havoc with SS amplifiers.  I might add that, thus modified, my 845PXs can be driven by much less than 50W of good tube power.  The ~100W Atma-sphere amplifiers are loafing even during loud passages.  

Great post, Lew.  Thanks!

The only thing I would add is in connection with this statement near the end:
... it is my opinion that so long as the impedance remains reasonable at least up to 10kHz, the low Z above that frequency is nothing to worry about; there is very little energy demand on the amplifier for frequencies above 10kHz...
The low energy demands in the top octave will of course work to the amp's advantage, as you indicated.  I would add, though, that there can still be effects in that region on tonal balance and in how accurately high speed transients are reproduced that will vary as a function of the relation between amplifier output impedance and the speaker's impedance characteristics in that octave.  Those effects will become increasingly pronounced as speaker impedance in that octave decreases relative to amplifier output impedance, everything else being equal.  Although as you indicated the specific relation between those characteristics that will be sonically optimal very much depends on the particular speaker and the particular amplifier.

Best regards,
-- Al
 

From my reading, I am aware of another consideration in these matters. The way an amplifier circuit reacts to very high frequencies presented to it, frequencies too high to be heard on their own, can affect the behavior and sound of the amp. A barely-stable circuit can be driven into oscillation by those frequencies, creating ringing and different forms of distortion.

Frank Van Alstine and Roger Modjeski have discussed this area of amplifier design in their writings, and it is an important consideration with ESL loudspeakers. They benefit greatly from an "unconditionally" stable amplifier. Both Frank and Roger make such amplifiers, though they are not alone in doing so.