Vintage DD turntables. Are we living dangerously?

Dear @halcro : I heard not one time but several times the DP-100 through the Denon distributor/dealer in Laredo,Tx where I bougth my DP-75 and 80. I posted more than once that I never had the kind of money to buy it P.Layandeker ( pass on. ) was a really Denon dealer enthusiast he always was in love with Denon and Treshold. One of the very first USA presentation of the DP-100 was at Audio Den in Laredo and I attended and during the demostration Peter puts his little boy stand up at the DP-100 plinth during play to demo that how good was the very well damping system of the unit and you know what the music playing there was listened the same with the boy there and with out him ! !. So you are totally wrong with what you posted.

In the other side I listen my 71 " face to face " a 81 ( both stok units. ) and I did not see any single advantage over the 71 that was my unit and no I never had that opportunity against the 101.

Btw, whom is H.Weisfield or Thuchan, only two other persons as you or me nothing more. Differences as always are based and has its foundations on: self training, knowledge levels and ignorance levels and I can see that you never grow-up and stay stick there for ever. That you still own the 101 and those SAEc tonearms and many other audio items you own speaks for you alone. Your words has not a real significance when what you try to show with out success. Thuchan is only a wealthy gentleman with not very high knowledge levels in audio and MUSIC, at least is not what he shows, I have several " anecdotes " with him ( maybe he improves . ) that are facts but he is not the subject here.

Every one has its own all those characteristics levels and if those self audiophile characteristics are low or high is not offensive to speaks about. You can’t hide behind money or behind other audiophiles. You me and every one else are what we are. If I have a mediocrity level you can be sure that no matter what I can’t hide it and you can’t hide your real level.

You as best-groove still after so many years just can’t understand my posts because stay sticked in the past but all in the world in changing every second and audio is not the exeption.

Btw, @lewm I think that you neither took my point: I said that Technics takes all its accumulated audio cuklture with the today audio technology/materials/electronics at hand that they did not has in those all times so makes sense that their new units be superior to the vintage ones. @lewm wake up: your unit comes from 1981 and today we are in March 2018 ! ! that makes adifference: don’t you think? In the other side camn you share if your DP-80 is a refurbished unit?, thank’s in advance.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

When I purchased my DP80, it was not running correctly.  It did "run" but there was a problem; at this point in time I've forgotten what it was. It's a 100VAC model, and the seller told me he ran it with 120VAC. No wonder it was problematic.

I gave it to Bill Thalmann. Bill replaced all the electrolytic capacitors and replaced many of the discrete transistors for modern ones that according to Bill perform better and are more reliable.  I also obtained a new chip from a vendor in Hong Kong.  This single chip is essential to normal operation of most of the high end Denons, and Bill installed the new one in mine, mainly because that was found to be the source of the original problem.  Bill also calibrated the unit, and I have had zero problems with it since then.  (I will say this: In my experience, the DP80 after Bill worked on mine is more reliable than the TT101, but this is comparing only one sample of each.  Hardly worth drawing any conclusion from that.)

The difference between 1981 and 2018 is going to be mostly in the fact that these days we have faster and more complex ICs.  I am not sure that that is an important advantage for modern DD turntables vs vintage ones, because the operation of the servo governing both is not "rocket science".  In fact, there may be some advantage to slower reacting corrections coming from the servo. (That's a subject for another thread, I guess.)  The L07D, for example, deliberately relies more on platter inertia than on rapid, frequent servo corrections to maintain constant speed.  In this way, the design contrasts with Technics.  I can't prove it, but I have often wondered whether the seductive "liquidity" of the sound from the L07D has something to do with this aspect of its design. (My latest experiments with the L07D also suggest that one MUST add EMI shielding under the platter in order to get the most out of it. Without added shielding, there's a faint "gray"-ish coloration that causes the sound to hang on the speakers and reduces the dynamics.)  On the opposite side of the ledger, modern corporations tend to be run by accountants who are all about reducing costs.

Also, from what I read when it was introduced, the Grand Prix Monaco has space age speed correction, possibly faster than any other design.  Is anyone in love with the GP Monaco?

Also, don't you think we can dismiss the Stereophile ratings of anything? It's just commercial crap. We know that many great pieces of gear never see the light of day on that listing.

lewm

When I purchased my DP80, it was not running correctly. It did "run" but there was a problem; at this point in time I've forgotten what it was. It's a 100VAC model, and the seller told me he ran it with 120VAC. No wonder it was problematic.

Yup, no wonder. I do not believe that the DP-80 was ever made in a 120VAC model. When I bought my DP-80 back in the late-70s - brand new from a Denon dealer -  it was delivered with a Denon-branded step-down transformer.

Dear @cleeds : You are rigth the DP-80 never was manufactured to run at 120VAC . My unit comes exaxctly as yours but the 75 comes with no step down transformer.

I think that the unit that bougth lewm was modified in some ways to run at 120VAC.

I don't know other DP-80 owners but my unit from new ( and the 75 too. )  always play as " new " and I have in stock status. 

Btw, maybe the 101 design is very good but the JVC excecution was not at levels of Denon or Technics and even its manufacturer specs are inferior to the Denon's.

101:  w&f  0.020%    s/n   75db  speed accuracy   0.002%

DP-75:  w/f   0.15%    s/n   80db   speed accuracy    0.002%

Even the JVC 71 has better spec than the 101 in s/n db. Main difference between the 71 and 81 is the double/bi-directional servo that does not comes in the 71 and of course the higher price.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Dear Raul,

If you heard no differences between the TT-71 and TT-81....then something was very wrong.
Either the TT-81 was faulty, the system it was connected to was not revealing or you are simply unable to hear discriminately  🤔
The differences between the TT-81 and TT-71 are far more marked than those between the TT-81 and TT-101 starting with the bi-directional servo control which is a patented breakthrough in DD technology and is the reason that the Yamaha GT-2000 (which uses the same Victor bi-directional servo motor) is so desirable.