VPI Classic vs. Well Tempered Amadeus

here's a list of MY observations so far between the WTA and Classic 1 with the Soundsmith Counter-Intuitive (you'd be crazy not to spend $50 on this).

sound - yes, in the end the most important thing and the WTA wins. better bass, more life-like, more texture, more detail, smoother, blacker background (except one thing, see below!). I thought the VPI sounded amazing, and I still think it does, the WTA just cranks it up a notch or two. it has that magic that really draws you in. I think I have reached the end of the line as far as tables go.

belt - in reference to the above post about blacker background, the belt makes noise every time that stupid knot passes around! at first I was like "what's all this static popping with no record playing?". then I turned on the light and can see it's all related to the belt. what am I doing wrong here? I can't imagine people would put up with this and not comment on it. it also looks pretty darn retarded seeing a knot and the loose ends spinning around the platter.

feet - I can't stand tables that don't have adjustable feet. my audio rack is very heavy and not easy to level out to perfection. WTA gets a minus for not being adjustable but VPI gets a minus too since the nubs on the bottom of the feet are of such a hard compound that I see it scarred my table top from twisting them.

VTA - definitely better on the VPI with the ships wheel adjustment. loosen an allen bolt, spin the wheel, and you raise and lower the arm exactly where you want it with no disruption to other settings. on the WTA you are adjusting the height of the suspension post, which also twists as you are trying to get it where you want it, not to mention messes with the height of the ball in the cup. it's also not easy to move in tiny increments.

VTF - definitely better on the VPI since you have 3 levels of adjustment. put the weight in roughly the right spot, slide the Counter-Intuitive to get it exact or very close (and be able to reference a marking where it is), then use the bolt at the end of the tonearm for ultra fine zeroing in. on the WTA you are left with only the weight and no point of reference for marking your spot.

azimuth - better on the VPI if you are doing it only by sight, but if you have a fozgometer it shouldn't matter much. again it's nice though being able to reference the markings on the Counter-Intuitive. to me it seems like it would be difficult to get the azimuth perfect on the WTA by sight. I did my VPI by sight using the supplied balance beam and an index card. I was able to get it to near perfect compared to what the fozgometer said.

cartridge alignment - man, this is one huge plus of the WTA! I have very shaky hands, especially when trying to concentrate on something, so installing carts has always been tough for me. sometimes I would spend hours trying to get it perfect. with the WTA you bolt it on and go, a matter of seconds. I thought for sure my Zephyr would run into issues with not having the right overhang since on my VPI it sits way back in the headshell. not at all, it seems to work perfect.

tonearm wiring - partially due to my shaky hands, but this stuff is scary thin. I thought for sure I was going to break it. the WTA and VPI have similar metal mini DIN connectors that plug into a jack on the table. the VPI has a better connector. it snaps in with an audible click and has a sturdier connection than the WTA. there's also marks showing you how to line it up. I'm sure the WTA is making a fine connection, but it's just kind of wiggly sitting there. not exactly confidence inspiring.

power switch - my god, how VPI can sell (and keep selling) a $2750 turntable that has a huge POP if you cut the power without being muted is beyond me. I've heard there's a $1 fix that VPI tells people to make by using a cap from Radio Shack. why would they not install this themselves? I'd sometimes forget to mute before shutting off, thankfully the WTA does not have this issue.

construction - both tables are well made with decent materials (they're not a Rega). I like the look of the VPI, but the WTA is better in person than I thought it would be. might be nice having a table where there's no chance of throwing my back out from lifting it. the VPI is a beast.

Vortex,
Thank you for a thorough comparison of the two tables. Perhaps you'd be willing to come back to the thread after you've spent a considerable amount of time with the WTA and do more comparisons focused on the sound. You know, after the novelty factor wears off...:) As I mentioned in my thread above, I had an opportunity to listen to the WTA in a very good set-up and it definitely did not have a better bass or detail than my Classic. Of course the sound is so system- and associated gear-dependent, on top of any evaluation being a very subjective affair to begin with. Nonetheless, I'm rather reluctant to believe that the WTA is better in such a profound way right out of the box, after just a few hours of listening. Was your Zephyr set up correctly on the Classic? Sounds like you had some issues with aligning it properly. I can't help but think that the crazy tracking error on the WTA makes Mr. Baerwald, Loefgren, and the rest turn in their graves. Is it possible that it's fast food packaged as high-end in terms of sound? Or is it genuinely a high-end product that renders the established understanding of analog equipment set-up obsolete or irrelevant?

Now as a suggestion, if you're keeping the Classic, look into replacing the stock feet with brass footers, such as Bearpaws. Not only will they improve the sound, but will also eliminate the marks if you need to adjust the table.

Also, the Counter-Intuitive is great indeed, but I'd recommend O-rings for an even easier VTF and Azimuth adjustments in addition. This would be especially helpful for the WTA from what you described. An O-ring will provide not only a point of reference, but also prevent any unwanted movement of the counterweight, especially if you have shaky hands.

that's interesting, because the bass is such an improvement over what I had. it's so smooth and natural sounding, very very nice. I'll be the first one to admit if something is crap, even if I spent thousands of dollars on it. there's no novelty to the WTA, it just sounds amazing. I think my cart on the VPI was setup to near perfection using a 10x magnifier and a MINT Tractor, but it was not easy for me. it sure was much much better than using the stock alignment tool from VPI.

to be honest, I was kind of hoping the VPI would sound better and I would keep that. I'm going to lose money by selling the VPI and I just think it is a much better looking table, without the quirkiness too. it was pretty obvious though that the WTA is better sound wise in every regard, in my opinion and in my system.

"Nonetheless, I'm rather reluctant to believe that the WTA is better in such a profound way right out of the box, after just a few hours of listening"

Actusreus

Believe it. This table is the real deal.

Shakey

I have been anxiously awaiting Vortex's update after setting up the WTA. So glad to hear the results so far. It's not the drugs afterall. It's the fact that Firebaugh has looked hard at the system of LP playback and re-addressed it with innovative out of the box thinking and design. If it takes a golf ball to do this efficiently, then who are we to argue. Don't have an Amadeus (yet) but I immediately heard the results of his vision the first time I set up my aged Well Tempered "Super". Something squeeky clean and liquid about the sound generated by his zero play platter bearing and floating fluid coupled arm. One of the most important things we want in a turntable is to lose the sense that the music is coming from anything rotating around. You should look over at the table and feel dumbfounded that such a life like illusion can be eminating from it. The Well Tempered products have always had this quality in spades. I certainly understand all the skepticism- no other product I recall has received such unanimous accolades. Particularly, even listeners who have been around the Analog block a few times seem to go GaGa over this thing. Good for you guys. You didn't go the easy route. You didn't just buy another safe bet Corvette. You had the balls to search out a Lotus.