What capacitor would you use to upgrade Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary?

Hello everyone, this might be my first forum post but I often exchange PMs and emails with forum members...so just incase I need to introduce myself, this is me, DK, the guy behind computer typing this message and putting a period right here.

Now refer to this link for a screenshot of the elusive Linton schematic as provided by Mofi (the vinyl record people)...they are the distributor for Wharfedale in US and provide technical support (for now).  Also shown is my actual crossover with labels:

https://www.hifivision.com/threads/linton-crossover-upgrade.85749/#post-961789

The drawing I received was version 14 and I do not have any info about earlier or later versions or why any particular changes were made...WYSIWYG.

Note, there may be differences between the schematic and the values on your own crossover.

For example, my C11 is 80uf vs 68uf on schematic. There could be other differences but I would need to desolder the crossover and measure all components...I'm not ready to do that yet.

For the sake of being able to directly compare the schematic with the actual parts, I put labels that show the schematic values. I did my best to ensure nothing is mislabeled but I can't guarantee it without performing full surgery.

So what am I waiting for? I'm trying to first educate myself on how a crossover works to determine why Wharfedale designed the Linton crossover in the way they did...only then would I want to move forward.

For example, this crossover seems more complicated than it needs to be and I wonder if Wharfy is spoiling the circuit to prevent the Linton (usd$1500) from competing directly with the Elysian 2 (usd$7000), or does the crossover really need to be designed this way to produce the desired sound, or is it both???

DK

DK, 

I think what is going on with Wharfedale is much simpler than a potential strategic move to keep the Linton from competing with the Elysian.  My theory is that the speaker was built to a price point where they figured out the profit margin they needed on the units and selected parts accordingly.  

While it certainly helps to get better educated before performing a crossover surgery, I would recommend leaving the values and tolerances where they are and upgrading with capacitors and resistors of near identical values/tolerances but with much better product.  That way you stay true to the designer's work on the network.  

I sold mine and haven't been inside the Linton in a long time so I cannot recall how easy the surgery would be. But if it were me, I'd start with upgrading the cap(s) on the tweeter then midrange.  

Also, I saw the forum thread you linked to above.  I saw there was debate about bypassing caps.  I'd softly recommend not doing that and just going for a cap replacement where you think it would help.  A better cap will provide better signal and get out of the way.  Bypassing caps in parallel still leaves the allegedly inferior, inexpensive generic cap in place.  In my humble view, we are generally better off by putting in an identical value better cap than playing the bypass game.  Others believe otherwise though. 

Best of luck! Enjoy the surgery. 

For everyone,
A copy of the Wharfedale Linton Heritage crossover is now posted at HifiEngine:

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/wharfedale/linton_heritage.shtml

JB,
Hi, thanks again for your help and feedback. I'm in full agreement with your position on a qualitative upgrade but I'm still quite interested hearing what could (should???) be done quantitatively (a change in values or circuitry).

From a quality standpoint, the C3=15uf (mylar) is downstream of the C1=6.8uf and C2=0.68uf (both MKP) and in series with the tweeter so I'm inclined to think the quality C3 is just as important and should directly match the capacitors used at C1-C2...else the C3 limit the goodness provided by an expensive upgrade at C1-C2.

Speaking of expensive, I looked at some prices and a 15uf cap costs nearly double that of a 6.8uf, so if we shelled out $80 for the 6.8uf, we'd be looking at about $150 for the 15uf.

On that point I have to question my thinking about requiring C1+C2+C3 to all be matched, i.e., use Audyn Tri-Reference at all three positions and is it necessary?  Said differently, how much do we give up if we step down in quality (arguable) and price and use, say, a $12 Jantzen Standard Z-cap at C3 but keep Audyn Tri-Ref at C1-C2?

Perhaps the real solution is to recognise the economics of the original design (especially the tweeter and midrange quality) and not waste money going beyond a matched set of Standard or Superior Z-caps at all three positions? But are the drivers really that limited in quality and not worth a Audyn Tri-Ref or ODAM or your favorite/best cap etc???

Or should we upgrade another area of the crossover first, like the inductors?

JB, I surely don't expect you to have answers for me, I'm really asking the community what is the functional importance of C3 and what is the the best practice for upgrading C1, C2, C3 as a whole?

Thanks again and I hope to hear back from you when it's convenient,
DK

@adg101

Hi, I saw your comments above:

I’d have to study the crossover of your Lintons, but how are you sure you shouldn’t tackle the inductors first as that’s where manufacturers cut corners before the caps. Caps for the most part are cheap compared to the inductors.

To encourage your feedback, I uploaded the Linton schematic on HifiEngine and am asking if you're willing to DL a copy, look it over and tell us what you think?  I also have some comments above.

Thank you,
DK

Full original schematic here (but a little blurry):
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/wharfedale/linton_heritage.shtm

Snapshot of schematic and photo of my crossover with nice labels here (both v.clear):
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/linton-crossover-upgrade.85749/#post-961789

Just Audio's youtube video showing actual crossover at 18:00:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSMa6S_YzPs

@davekine,  You pose good questions.  I say they are good because you are thinking about it correctly and there are no clear answers.  

Disclaimer--I'm good at spending other peoples money--or so my wife says.  

That out of the way, I'd upgrade as much as you can afford on the mid and treble side of the network.  And, mixing cap makes is fine, but I'd go as good as you can afford.  

For example, I recently did the caps on my Klipsch Cornwall IVs.  I hated the fact that upgrading all caps on the tweeter and midhorn were going to cost me $900 when I included Path Audio resistors (dumping ceramic cast resistors).  But, these are a $6k speaker and I thought they deserve the best.  Don't people spend $900 on speaker cables? 

At any rate, I wouldn't worry as much about inductors for now.  They can have an impact but from what I recall the inductors weren't junk in the W-Dales.  

My two favorite caps right now are VCap ODAMs (like them better than VCap CuTfs, which are stellar in their own right) and ClarityCap CMR.  The ODAMs get the nod against many on sound but when you look at their size you will be happy to install them!

Finally, I really wish I could've heard the Lintons upgraded. They are just a wonderful speaker.  I think they are a hi fi bargain of the last decade.  When the guy who bought mine showed up to pick them up, he couldn't believe how heavy, solid, and beautiful they were for a $1500 speaker with stands.