What happened to the "club atmosphere" of Audiogon?


Hi Goners!

After 12 years as a member hear i have developed some questions based on my observations of Audiogon in the last four to five years...

When i joined it was a fledgling group of "music lovers" who now brand themselves, quite often it seems, as "audiophiles"! [ whatever that REALLY is...:-)
The boards were helpful, very helpful and almost never negative but like a brother [be it older or younger] discussing the finer points of a product,company, design etc...

It was known that you could score wonderful, WELL MAINTAINED audio and video products sold at a fair price and with confidence that the person who sold you that item would stand behind it!!

It was the CULTURE of Audiogon that made it so very special to me, in fact it has been on my radar every day since i joined!

I have been a seller, buyer, trader, cartridge seller and have noticed disturbing trends:
Seems if anything is mark "USED", even 5 minuted old, it should, at best, garner only 50%
Lowball offering has become rampant here,trying to then add insult to injury by asking the seller to pay shipping!
Nasty,curt e-mails without any simple courtesy and professionalism...Now i am painting with a broad brush BUT all of these negatives , and more i will not go into from this vein, have reduced this site to a "virtual close out Wharehouse" of close out merchandise or find your ads not even getting a question about your ad!!

I for one enjoy the banter with long time posters, some of who have earned my respect with they're
 witty yet insightful comments...

Has anyone else felt Audiogon's best days have come and gone if we follow the present template?
Thanks and keep the responses civil and helpful please!

128x128azjake
Seems if anything is mark "USED", even 5 minuted old, it should, at best, garner only 50%

Umm, welcome to the rest of the world.  Why should audio equipment be much different?  Some of the prices people expect for 5-10 year old "high end" electronics can be quite ridiculous.  Don't hate me, I'm an "audiophile" too, but I'm also a realist that doesn't have a double standard for my own hobby.
A few years ago, the "financial partners" in this site decided the site should be making more money.   Nothing wrong with that, as a goal;  the times were changing.  The simplest way to achieve that end would have been to raise prices, right?  Increase the price of the ads;  maybe put them on a sliding scale tied to the advertised price of the item.  And perhaps add a small annual membership charge.  Unless the increases were outrageously high, no one would have objected.  And no one would have left the site in disgust.   But that's not what happened.

The partners didn't understand the "club" culture of the site, nor had any of them interacted with the members before then.  They imagined they could be the "eBay of Audio".  And it never occurred to them that Audiogon was, in fact, a club  (or that eBay was not a club!)  So they decided to follow the eBay model:  specifically, they would make money by adding a fee to every transaction, and (in the beginning) never considered raising the ad prices or charging a membership fee.

As a result, it became necessary for the owners to micromanage the members' interactions;  to make sure they didn't communicate privately or make deals without telling Audiogon;  just like eBay does.  When the fellow who originally conceived Audiogon balked at that approach, they forced him out (like when Steve Jobs, the 'soul' of Apple, was forced out) and that was the end of the "friendly" Audiogon.

So there's no point in talking about the "different kinds of members", and how they behave.   People are people;  but the Audiogon culture is no longer genuinely warm and welcoming.  And many of the oldest members  --  those with the most knowledge, and the patience to provide the best answers over and over again  --  many of them no longer feel inclined to freely contribute their time and knowledge to what has become a purely commercial enterprise.  It's a shame, because it didn't have to go this way . . . . . .  
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When a site grows it "normalizes", whether that's for the good or bad.

I'm new to posting here myself, and only doing so because of the recaps Audiogon sends to my email, but I have bought a few things here. I probably won't be a regular contributor, not because I sense any attitude, but because it seems to be a site enamored of subjective views. And I'm not. But other than that it seems pretty normal in tone.

As for low-balling, I'm not sure why people get upset over this. I have no problem with people trying to save money and test my price. All I have to do is say no and counter. It's not personal. It's not an insult. It's just money. Recently, I made a bid (about -25%) where the seller never responded. He probably lost a sale because I was willing to come within 7% of his asking price, but just wanted to see how much I could save. The item still sits there today and I moved on and bought it elsewhere. Asking for 50% off is silly, but not trying to get the best deal you can is pretty silly too.
I think nsgarch and smittyjs pretty much nailed it.  You have to separate the forum/social side from the sales side.  Business is business, if you don't like an offer, either counter or say no.  Don't get insulted.  When someone asks you what your best price is, either say what it is and stick with it, or (as I chose to) say make an offer if you're interested, but I'm not going to negotiate against myself.  On the forum side, there has been quite a bit of "turnover" but there's still lots of good info out there. 







I still love AG!  

Only recently have I given my voice to it and yes, I am grateful for the help, insights, product knowledge and occasional wheeling and dealing, buying and selling for great items from knowledgable people… had some great conversations even when things didn't work out…   I did buy a pair speakers here recently and it was a good purchase for me, the seller seemed happy…  Love em!  Could not have purchased such quality new… I enjoy the music as much or more than the gear chase… the HiFi madness !

I have noticed more negative tones form some voices… so far as AG history and future goes… I will defer to the wisdom of Charlie Brown and Snoopy… 

Scene:   Watching the sun go down… Charlie Brown states…

"Some day we are all going to die"….
Snoopy responds " Yes!  But every other day we are not!"   ;-)