What is Musicality?

Kijanki and Jax2, my statement "as professionals our much deeper knowledge of the music gives us much more pleasure in listening to a great performance" was not at all intended the way you and some others here took it.

I was not responding specifically to your statement, but yes, generally to that sentiment being discussed. I had read yours as well as several others that followed it. I did not mean to single anybody out in particular as several folks made comments on the same subject.

As a further comment on some of what you've added here;

I was simply referring to the fact that the greater understanding and comprehension add to our own pleasure when we listen.

It could most certainly add to it, and I do understand you are speaking from direct experience. But, depending on the individual and the circumstance, it could just as easily distract from it or detract from it. I've known a a few folks over the years who took something they had tremendous passion for, that they did simply for the love of it, and then turned that thing into a career. In many cases they lost the passion they once had for it in shifting their motivations. That is just one simplistic example, which you touch upon yourself indirectly in your further statements. I definitely do not think that a deep understanding of any particular subject will necessarily mean the capacity to enjoy that pursuit is enhanced. It could just as easily detract from something as primal as the enjoyment of music. I find that when it comes to things that are highly emotionally charged, like music, the more my 'head' comes into play, the further I get from being in the moment and enjoying the emotions that do arise. I expect such things are as individual as fingerprints though. I do appreciate hearing about your own personal experience and observations of others in your field. BTW - your writing skills are just fine - I've certainly enjoyed your posts.

Onhwy61, "understand/comprehend" connote an intellectual or cerebral attitude toward music appreciation. I am not using the word appreciation in this way at all. I use the word appreciate to mean the ability to enjoy. Different people enjoy music in different ways. Men are naturally more cogitators than women. This is a psychologically observable fact that has been noted by many famous people in the field of psychology and psychiatry including Carl Jung. Have you noticed how your sister, mother, girlfriend, female friends or wife often appreciate music differently? Because women function primarily on the "feeling level" and not on the "thinking level" they tend to appreciate music on the feeling level, not on the cerebral level -- in most cases, unless they are musicians or unless there is a specific aspect of the music's reproduction that stands out and cannot go unnoticed, such as harshness in the high frequencies or a boom in the bass frequencies that may grate on the ears and "interfere" with one's ability to appreciate the music as a whole. Dissecting a musical piece and focusing on one or more of its constituent parts is not the same kind of listening that I am referring to when I use the word appreciate. For me, understanding or comprehending a piece of music technically is not at all the same thing as appreciating it or feeling it in its wholeness.

Tiggerfc, I agree with you completely.

Sabai

Tiggerfc - I loved "Once" and would heartily second your recommendation to see it. What do you think of their recent release together under "Swell Season"? I have yet to warm up to it vs the soundtrack which I do really enjoy.

One more film that speaks to the some of this, in some way (there are certainly many, but indulge me this one more because upon seeing it I would rank in my top 10 films of all time): The Swedish film, "As it is in Heaven". Ten stars is not enough for this film - this one goes to eleven! That's one more than ten! If you love music, do not pass go, run, don't walk, see this movie!

One of the interesting bits brought up in the great book pointed out by Hellofidelity (This is Your Brain on Music) is about the history of music in civilization. Briefly, and paraphrasing, he points out that it is only a very modern day development where musicians are considered another breed, and talent in music has become a matter of elevated (arguably distorted) prestige in society. He goes on to point out in days long past, in most cultures, music was a given as common and expected as perhaps ones ability to drive a car might be today. Much like in some tribal cultures, a few that still survive today, music (and dance) are tightly interwoven into the culture and enjoyed and practiced practically from birth to death. For one to not participate in that, to those people, is completely shocking. So it was more common in western civilization hundreds of years ago - or at least much closer to that model. Elevating musicians (and performers) to levels of celebrity is a recent manifestation of modern culture, says Levitin. Anyone who's spent any time with "celebrities" knows that, in spite of their talents, they are simply ordinary people with both good qualities and bad, just as flawed as any of us, and who put their pants on one leg at a time just like any of us do. Some are extraordinary people and some are rather plain, and some are complete A%$holes (and everything in between)....just like the rest of the population. I really resist any statements that infer such things as, "most zookeepers love dogs." Really, what's the point, even if it were true?

What I was awkwardly trying to get at in some of my remarks was that I really do enjoy when people share their personal experiences - it's fascinating to see how widely varied we all are. But I do find that I am pushed away when I get the sense that someone sees the world through blinders and tries to fit everything into pigeon holes, and especially when judgments become involved elevating one person above another, or making broad generalizations about some particular group whether it be professional musicians or women, or audiophiles (I'm not saying that's what anyone IS trying to do here, but I have got that sense from some of the conversation, whether deliberate/intended or not). There is nothing to be gained in such a scenario, from my perspective. Again, I am not pointing to any one person's comments here... but these are general responses to the (ridiculous) sub-topic that seems to have arisen here of who appreciates music more, and what ways can one appreciate music more. To me, that's like someone telling me that they have a way that I can enjoy chocolate cake even more by learning about the way it is made, or by standing on my head while I eat it, or by eating only one particular kind, etc. Hey, I don't mind hearing what works for you - I rather enjoy it, and I do revel in your passion shared, and do very much appreciate that you take the time and energy to share them. But when someone else assumes that something that works for them will necessarily work for me and everyone else....well, it's kind of like having some religious belief shoved down your throat. For me personally, I really don't want to question why I enjoy music, or wine, or cake. I don't need to understand or comprehend it on any other level than I already do...I'd just like to continue to enjoy it without my head getting in the way (as I mentioned, it is prone to do that once in a while). I admit, I'd consider myself a simple kind of person in this way. For me my head does not add to my enjoyment of such things, to the contrary, it gets in the way. Musicality ends when my head becomes involved - I realize that's just one experience among many and that there are other possibilities.

Jax2 - "What do you think of their recent release together under "Swell Season"? I have yet to warm up to it vs the soundtrack which I do really enjoy."

I surprisingly wasn't very happy with the Swell Season album either. But the soundtrack, definitely. I downloaded quite a few of the soundtrack songs I liked.

I'm not a huge movie buff so I don't see very many. Unfortunately, I have not heard of "As it is in Heaven" and can not comment on it but I will put on my list of things to do. Any movie about music is always interesting to me. "Ray" was fantastic though it was more about his life. "August Rush" or was it just "August"???...that was more based on music itself and I thought it was great. The theme song from "Schindler's List" is one of my favorite violin pieces to play. Of course I put my own twist on it. But I digress... a little off topic there.

One thing that most people agree on here is that music speaks to each person on an individual level. Some may get more dopamine action than others but I don't think that is the final piece in musical enjoyment or appreciation or comprehension or whatever word you want to throw at it.

There is definitely a fine line because each has been debated together and seperately. And I don't think anyone could possibly have a solid and definitive answer here since indivuality will ultimately define the listening experience and ability to attain the amount of enjoyment from it.

The best answer here regarding musicality has already been stated by others here as well... it's you.