What is Warmth?

My definition of warmth I actually hear in live symphonic performances all the time. I think the hall can influence this quite a bit. One thing I never hear in a live performance is false sense of detail we hear in many systems. I would say the real thing actually sounds dull, slow, very rolled off and somewhat neutral. I never hear triangles, brass, anything for that matter sound as bright and detailed, the highs many talk about, it does not exist in live music ime It just goes to show how we all hear different. Very interesting thread.

Dear Suteetat: I'm not talking of halls per se but the performance of instrument as we hear when we are seated/listening at 2-3 meters from the players as the recording microphones are. This is the context and IMHO in this " environment " I think you can't find out that audiophile warmth everybody here are talking about. Their context is way different from what I posted.

That example that different violins could sounds one warmth over the other makes no sense to me, we can hear a Stradivarius against a Guarneri or against an Amati and even that these ones sounds different maybe we can't use the warmth word to differentiate one from the other, especialy on the audiophile warmth meaning.

In the other side what for one person can be warmth for other person it is just more neutral or accurate.

Anyway, my take is the same: audiophile warmth meaning is just a distortion/coloration that does not exist in the music pick-up ( at the very first instant. ) recording microphone. A warmth is a distorted characteristic in an audio item or in an audio system. I'm not talking here if what we like is that warmth tone in music but what is " correct/right " and IMHO warmth is " wrong ".

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Hi Raul, it is difficult to define such a subjective term. I agree with you about the location of recording microphone and actual listening position in a concert hall and all that. On the other hand, I am not sure about the difference between warm sounding stero equipment and instrument/hall. Let see if I get this right. Most people tends to imply that roll off high frequency and the bump in mid upper bass seems to give rise to what we hear as warmth in stereo equipment. Now, acoustically dry concert hall, as I understand it is a hall the have very small reverberation time, say 2-3 ms where as the acoustically more pleasing tone hall, those that seems to be richer, denser tonal color, usually has longer reverberation time, around 4-6 ms (I read about this somewhere a long time ago, not sure if I remember the number correctly). However, richer, denser tone does not neccessarily means warmer sound. Depending on where you sit in the audience, there is definitely going to be some roll off of high frequency in comparison to close mike position. Sitting at 10-30-50m away from the stage, one would expect certain decline or roll off of high frequency, more so than low frequency by various instruments to exist. I think that's why real symphonic concert seems to sound less bright and duller than what I hear on recording and that's why orchestra nowaday tries to compensate for that by raising the frequency on the note to give that extra brightness. Whether the roll off characteristic of each hall give rise to warmer sound in some concert halls over the other, I am not sure.

When talking about different made of the same instruments, warmth is definitely a term that I often hear people using to describe the different in sound, French vs German tone, brands of pianos, various wood used in instruments. However, I have not heard anyone specifically say that it is the characterisitic high frequency roll off of mid/upper bass bump that give rise to the warmth quality in each instrument or not. Personally I play piano and own a Grotrian grand piano. I have also played quite a bit on Steinway, Fazioli, Yamaha, Ibach, vintage Erard and Pleyel and I what perceived as warmth tone when compare each instrument is definitely quite valid.

PS when talking about roll off high and mid/upper bass bump, I tend to think of some ported speakers or some tube equipments. However, a warm sounding class A solid state amplifier generally tends to measure pretty flat from 20Hz to 20,000Hz, does it not? May be I am missing something here.

Well designed solid state gear can indeed have "warmth", and often more accuracy...If something is on a recording I don't want it masked by euphonic distortion or anything else. I've heard amazing low powered "SE" tube amps that sound amazingly accurate (to a wattage limited point) and solid stuff that is lifeless...so It's up to the designer how things are voiced and the listener to how it all tastes, so to speak. Warmth for me is lack of harshness. Period.