What's a contender to an Audio Reference 5 SE?

Quite Taters...I fear the whiff of disgruntled ex dealer doth pervade the airs!

Viz: "I sold AR for over 6 years of time. When I should
sell it again, it would be time to look for another job"

It is a shame when a fellow merely seeking balanced advice and guidance falls foul of those who would seek to use such a thread for their own ends.

A simple Google search throws up several instances where Pass Labs and ARC products are run together in harmony, some instances of folk running both companies products as user alternatives due to the relative strengths and nuances offered.

Some instances where some folk have prefered Pass Labs to ARC and Vice versa, however such a preference would appear to be a close run thing for the most part, and certainly nowhere even close to the skewed rhetoric espoused by Bo1972!

All that aside, this thread is more than merely ARC Vs Pass Labs, as referenced by several respondents recommending a number of excellent high quality viable alternatives offering a 'nuanced' reference level of sound reproduction, which in the end, may well be decided upon as much in terms of the Cost, the Aesthetic, the Practicalities of SS Vs Valve, and arguably the most pertinant point to consider, that of System Impedance and Synergy.

I remember going into different "brick and mortar" dealers and when I asked about a product they didn't carry, if they "bashed it" that was an indication that they had that product taken away from them, or didn't get the product. I would politely listen and then leave. I recall a few years ago there was a JL Audio thread regarding the Fathom subwoofer on another well known forum where the posts from ONE member were always negative. There is an agenda it seems?

I am not against tubes, I used tubes as well in the past. I auditioned many sets with tubes what I liked a lot.

The only remark I made is that when the sound becomes more complete the quality and even the emotion in music can reach a higher level.

Our focus is more on sound and image. We use the properties of brands and products to create 'our' sound.

We create 'our' sound by Total Sound. This means that we collect and combine all the different properties togheter.

So what is 'our'sound?

Our sound is an intimate 3 dimensional image what is build from a black center with a very involving and diverse middle freq.

You also can use tubes for the way we work. I think you create a better end result in sound when you use SS and tubes togheter!

Just a general question.

What does Plinius recommend as a compatible pre-amp to use with their amp?

That to me is a really good metric to use also. and a good place to start looking/listening.

Of course there are pre-amps that are better than the AR REF 5SE just like there are many that aren't.

First, are you taking used? I guess you are since the 5SE is discontinued. So, the price point within the test range should be the used (blue book) price for a REF 5SE. I would bet a lunch, that you would be really hard pressed to find a pre-amp, used or new that can out perform the used REF 5SE within that price point.

So, are we talking apples to apples? or apples to oranges?

It is decidedly unfair to compare components within different price points.

This is why AR has the REF 10 and 40th anniversary editions. They are better than the 5SE.

So, when you take what everyone has said previously, keep in mind what your price point/range really is. I would also bet that if Ralph (Atmosphere) threw away the budget, he could design/build a pre-amp that would absolutely kill the REF 5SE. Hell, I would even bet that his current pre-amp at that level is close to or better than the REF 5SE.

Engineering is engineering.

I could list many pre-amps that I believe are better than the REF 5SE, but at that price point, it would be much harder. But, they still exist.

enjoy, but set a price point (used or new) and listen for yourself).

@bo1972 Ok, ok.  Your points are more than well documented by now.  You are now just bothersome.  You might be a nice enough person but here you're coming off condescending and rude.  I would be happy if you just moved on, please.  You are having 100% no bearing on my decision. 

@minorl Oddly enough Plinius recommends their own brand.  The price point was pretty much set when I asked for contenders TO the 5SE.  Sure, I would consider used.  So if the 5SE sells for $13k new I would like other recommendations somewhere in that range.  Then I would consider used of those same brands/models, ergo "apples to apples".