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What's the deal with idler turntables and do they have a place in modern HiFi?

After going through a complete overhaul of an AR XA I've been tempted to take a step further back in history and restore an old Rek-O-Kut idler turntable. Can't remember the particular model number from Craigslist, but it seems like it may be an interesting project and far more customizable than the XA, especially when it come to the tonearm. The one I'm looking at comes with the original tonearm, but my guess is that it's even more garbage than the stock XA 'arm and I'd certainly replace it!

However, I don't generally become invested in something if it doesn't pay off. So if the sound is going to be dreadful because it's an idler, then I'll steer clear. But if the sound is bitchin' then I'll jump on the opportunity!
128x128mjperry96
thom_at_galibier_design's avatar
thom_at_galibier_design
729 posts
 
Hi Richard,

Thom
Have you considered introducing a little series R Into the power supply and scoping the motor current draw to vicariously look at stylus drag as a function of motor current draw?

Yes.  I've been wrestling with capturing the time domain of interest.  Our ears are so discerning in comparison with instrumentation, that sometimes, I feel that efforts like this are futile, and so, I put them off for another day.

Thom @ Galibier Design
thom_at_galibier_design's avatar
thom_at_galibier_design
729 posts
 
Hi ct1057,

Re: lenco. Just an observation.

From three decks l75 i found when used in the actual speed slot, the notch for say 33.33 they run fast. Is this by design to deal with stylus drag? Idk. The swiss engineers were very smart and the motor itself a thing of beauty - to me. But it is all hooked up to a mechanical wheel. Setting the speed a little slower is a bit of a pita, but once set it runs fine other than what i noted in previous post. But all that damping in the plinth does have its effect. It is very musical just not as extended as my other deck.

I seriously doubt this is to take stylus drag into account.  If you think about it (and accept stylus drag as influencing speed stability) then it would exist at 33.33, 34, 45, etc.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier Design
thom_at_galibier_design's avatar
thom_at_galibier_design
729 posts
 
Hi Pani,

I am not a TT designer but having heard many turntables (most of them are belt driven and many of them with heavy platters), less than 5% of them actually could hide their "high mass" artefacts. So, for me it is just statistics

I’ve had the same experience with most high mass turntable designs as well. It’s not my place to criticize other manufacturers, but I think everyone knows my position on drive belt materials.

I’m coming to the point that mass (when done right) is more about noise sinking than about speed stability. It’s something that I can’t test, because all of my platter damping tricks add mass (one of the ingredients is lead shot), so I can’t separate the two variables.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier Design
pani
1,219 posts
 
I havent heard your TTs yet Thom. Would love to hear it some day.
pani
1,219 posts
 
By the way, I also owned the Verdier previously (before deciding go direct and idler drive route). I agree that Verdier is more extended and more resolving than many of the DD and ID turntables. But I ultimately felt it is not keeping up with the tempo and pitch of the music. Music seemed to be dragging a bit. This is something I find in many belt drive TTs so I cannot single out the Verdier.
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