Where can I hear Teres

Ok. First the Teres is available as an assembled TT, so it is a "retail commercial product", as well as a DIY product, depending upon how you want to buy it. The Redpoint is made by some of the early Teres participants, and their intention was to "take it a step further". I have not heard the Redpoint TestaRossa, so I cannot say if they have done that, sonically. In fact, I cannot even say with certainty, that they are even on par with Teres. When the changes are as radical as the Redpoint, it can no longer be considered an "offshoot" product. It is its own design, and I'm not entirely certain that it is an improvement. I think these guys at Redpoint are good guys, and their product needs to be judged on its own merits. I am not one of the fans of their styling. On the tape-drive issue, this has been experimented with at Teres and at Walker, and both designers felt that a silk string drive was best. All I can say is that changing something does not necessarily make it better. It could be better, the same, or worse. I am disappointed that the Redpoint demonstration did not allow the sound to be related in the best fashion. I'm sure this was a disappointment for Bwhite, and for Redpoint as well. Every mfr. wants his product demonstrated in the best light, but this is not always possible.

As has been implied here Teres and Redpoint had the same roots but have evolved in very different directions. Today there is actually very little in common. The basic design of the bearing and the shape of the platter is about it. Platter material, base design, base materials, thrust plate material, motor... are all different. I suspect that at this point there would be little similarity in how they sound. For that matter you can be sure that the current Teres and Redpoint tables don't sound much like the original Teres DIY implementations. I can tell you that the Teres 265 sounds dramaticly better than my Teres serial #1 (the first DIY Teres).
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Chris
Teres Audio

Please don't take what I said as if I were disappointed by the Redpoint. I thought it was a nice sounding table and accompanying system. In fact, I've listened to an SME 30 with Aesthetix IO sig, Wavestream V8 tube amps, and Avalon Eidolon Diamond speakers at a dealer up the street and been far LESS impressed.

Regarding the "bashing" of Teres done by Redpoint - I would have to say that based on what I've read and what Teres themselves claim about the sound of acrylic bases (not-so-good sounding), I can find logic in how an acrylic platter would sound "lower end" than other materials. This is perhaps made evident by the new Teres Cocobolo platter.
Redpoint has uses many materials - in fact, they have more platter combos than what is advertised on their website.

I asked the Redpoint rep. numerous hard questions about the table...in fact, I sort of monopolized his time...and the one stand-out reason they seem to think their platters are better is that they weigh twice as much. Given the philosophy of Redpoint & Teres tables (higher mass the better), this too makes sense to me.

on Teres platters, the Lead Filled areas are just lead shot and air. Redpoint uses Lead Shot and a mineral oil. Redpoint has tested various oils ranging in viscosity to find what they consider to be the best. The purpose of the Lead shot is not only to increase mass but diffuse micro-vibrations. My gut tells me that lead shot suspended in oil would diffuse vibrations better than lead shot in air. It seems micro-vibrations aren't strong enough to move lead shot effectively when it is suspended in air. The density of the oil allows for some of the weight of the lead to be displaced - making it "easier" to counter vibration with slight movement...also, the oil displaces vibrations itself, fills gaps, lubricates the lead, and increases the mass by a wee-bit.

Another interesting differentiator is that on Teres bearings the nut which secures the bearing housing to the base is rather small and apparently grips the base by only 1/8 of an inch. IF the hole drilled for the base causes any chips in the wood, the contact area of the nut diminishes further.

The Redpoint bearing housing is larger (1.75" vs. 1.125") in diameter and threads directly into the base - hence requiring no nut.

Also the Redpoint bearing sits on delrin - something which Teres claims sounds better but is not as durable as teflon.

Bwhite - I made the same speculation about the advantages of suspending the lead shot in mineral oil in an earlier thread discussing possible tweaks to the Teres only to be told that this was not possible because of potential leaks (seems to me it would be pretty easy to keep oil from leaking out of a wood or acrylic base)
It also seems to me a that basic understanding of the physics would confirm your intuition that lead in air would be too resistant to movement to absorb the very fine vibrations that you would desire it to do. By suspending it in a more viscous medium, you decrease its effective weight but not its mass making it far more capable of absorbing vibration.
The Teres platter with lead looks cool but I wonder about its real effectiveness.

As I mentioned before I have never seen or heard the Teres in the flesh so I would never claim that the Redpoint actually sounds better than the Teres. I suspect that both tables are quiet good and most likely a much better value than anything you can get through normal distribution channels for comparable money. After meeting the people involved with Redpoint I was very impressed. The Testa Rosa sounds incredible in my system and I cannot imagine having the desire for a better table. I am sure that if I had chosen a Teres I would probably feel the same as well. Its very refreshing to have these type options in an industry that seems to have many products priced way too high.