Why not horns?

How many different ways do I have to say this?
A) the fact that a speaker HAS a 250watt amplifier attached to it does not mean that it NEEDS 250 watts.
The reason for using this much is simple. (though arguable) The more power an amp has the greater it's power supply. The greater it's power supply the (usually) more linear it's first watt is. Read up on Nelson Pass and his theories for more on this subject.
For reference, this same guy with the Trios went from one 75 watt stereo amplifier to two 150 watt monos for just the top three horns. And it sounded better! Why, when he only needed 1watt?? For reasons OTHER than headroom.
One of the basic points of those little, low watt, SET amps is the linearity. But that linearity is not exclusive to low watt SETs. It just takes a whole lot more power supply (amoung other things) to make a bigger amp the same.
Trust me, I have all of the fun little tech toys to measure these beasts in every conceivable way. And the bottom line is that the sensitivity of three basshorns nearly matches that of the rest of the system. Period.

Second, I am not simply a casual, some of the time, listener with my friends system. We've been working on it together for about 10 years. He is retired and has the time and resources. I and a couple others have the expertise. So I say, yet again, I am fully confident that if there is a technology or any other way to make his horns sound better, we have explored it.

As far as time alignment goes, we've tried both electrical and physical. Trust me, we've tried it all.

Still don't like 'em long term!

Dan,

The fact that there is a horn connected has nothing to do with the power requirement of the driver.

Is that really what you meant to say? It has very much to do with it. The very reason we use horns is to raise efficiency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_loudspeaker

Are you saying that seismic sub is 110dB efficient? I can't find anything on the web, his site is down for construction. I saw where he recommends 100-200 watts. If true it is hard to believe it is 110 dB efficient.

If you had a front loaded horn that was sufficiently long you could get those bass notes with very little power. Sorry if that irritates you but it is the truth.

Prez, so there is nothing you could possibly do to improve the sound of that system? If it is optimized that is what you are saying. Optimal is as good as it gets.

How do you figure the efficiency of the "basshorns" given it is an active system?

For reference, this same guy with the Trios went from one 75 watt stereo amplifier to two 150 watt monos for just the top three horns. And it sounded better! Why, when he only needed 1watt?? For reasons OTHER than headroom.

I agree it wasn't headroom, so what was it? You are comparing 2 amplifiers that obviously have differences other than max power and saying it is definitely because they have more power. It seems you jump to a lot of conclusions.

Herman what is the efficiency of the Bass driver of which you speak ?

110db/1W/1M @ 100 hz !

Several years ago I conducted a controlled blind listening test, administered under the guidance of a leading researcher in the field of psychoacoustics. In the questionaire that the listeners filled out, one very experienced listener wrote that he knew what kind of speakers we had behind the curtain: Electrostats. He owned electrostats and was sure he recoginzed their signature clarity, detail, and freedom from coloration. Just so you know, guessing what kind of speaker was behind the curtain was not part of the test.

Well, he was wrong. They were hornspeakers - rather unconventional ones, but still that's the category they'd fall in.

Fast-forward to a recent audio show. This was posted on another forum:

"As an audiophile for 40 years, and a high-end dealer for 15, I have my preferences of what works and what don't. When I first stuck my head in the room and saw the horns, I immediately judged the speaker and walked by the room. Every horn speaker I have ever heard always screamed at me one way or the other, I hate horns.

"But since I was there for a couple of days, I found myself back into this room. [They] sure made me eat those thoughts. Smooooooth, musical, and detail.....it was awesome. I went back more than a few listens, I knew they were going to start screaming at me eventually, I was wrong."

Those of you who, like this guy, hate horns, I'm not saying you haven't heard colorations. What I'm saying is, you may not have heard from among the best of the low-coloration hornspeakers yet.

Duke
dealer/manufacturer

"You are comparing 2 amplifiers that obviously have differences other than max power and saying it is definitely because they have more power. It seems you jump to a lot of conclusions."

Well, for starters, the output impedance was cut in half.

"Prez, so there is nothing you could possibly do to improve the sound of that system?"

At this time, no. But we are always searching.

"How do you figure the efficiency of the "basshorns" given it is an active system?"

Easy. You raise to volume to a specific SPL and then measure the output of the amplifier. The rest is just math.

Incidentally, I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt but so far I'm not entirely certain you understand the full breadth of sensitivity and the ways to achieve it.
FWIW, a serious argument could be made that it is better to use 6 individual drivers to achieve the same sensitivity of just one and a huge horn due to the way the 6 different ones will average out their non-linearities.