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$75 Thorens vs. $2K+ Michell...is this possible?

Hi all,

I've had my first turntable ever (a Michell Tecnodec purchased used with a Benz Glider medium ouput purchased new) for a couple of months now, and although it has sounded good at times and sometimes even great, overall it hasn't been what I've expected based upon the reputation that vinyl has over digital. Sometimes my table sounds smothered or rolled off in the highs, and sometimes I hear what I can best describe as noise/static/distortion on vocals when they get loud. Things have gotten a bit better with what I assume is break-in of the cartridge and some minor tweaking of VTA.

Yesterday, I purchased a well used Thorens TD 160 with an Audio Technica AT125LC. The cartridge is riding so low (I assume from use) that at times the body rubs on the record surface. I haven't had the time to do extensive direct comparisons, but the essence of what I expected from vinyl is here with the Thorens. An overall smooth, natural coherence that is emminently enjoyable to listen to. Natural, airy highs. Solid, but not overdone firm bass.

Again, I have not done direct comparisons, but I don't hear any of the downsided I heard with my Michell. There may not be quite the detail or soundstage width, but I feel like it's an overall more enjoyable listening experience.

I'd love input from the more experienced here to help me understand what's happening here.

Thanks much,
Paul
pj234
dean_man
90 posts
 
+++I've thought about swapping the cartridges to compare, but I'm not that confident in being able to set them up properly.+++

I'd say read the FAQs at Vinyl Asylum, download a good protractor from Vinyl Engine, and go at it slowly and carefully. Then follow the setup directions on the VDH site and you'll be good to go. Or first buy a $30 cartridge to practice on. Everybody has a first time.

+++If I were to keep the Thorens and sell the Michell, would the Glider be a good match for the table? +++

According to the tonearm database at the Vinyl Engine the TD160 came with three different factory arms, of differing effective mass, so it's going to be hard to say unless you know which arm it is. OR, unless you try it!

Jim
restock
831 posts
 
Paul, I owned both the Michell and Thorens and what you describe would indicate some problems with the cartridge mounting or phonostage settings. Where do you live? Possibly there are some friendly Agon members that could check the cartridge alignment etc. for you? It really is not that difficult to set up a table, but I have had bad experience with a dealer several years ago, who claimed you could just mount a cartridge without any alignment tools on a Rega arm, as one won't be able to tell the difference on a sub $1k table !!??

Knowing the Glider and Tecnodec, I would expect a very lean, fast, sometimes too detailed and unforgiving sound. The Thorens will be more balanced, but also with less resolution and detail. Noise/distortion should not be part of any analog sound and indicated alignment or other problems.
piedpiper
753 posts
 
The Glider isn't even close to breaking in and will definitely get better although tweeking the set up could render more improvement as well.
pbb
1,140 posts
 
Two points:

1) most likely are setup issues;

2) don't expect miracles.
geojap
42 posts
 
I have owned a new VPI Scout with a Benz Glider M2 cartridge for about 3 months. Before that, I owned a Thorens TD-125 MK2 for about 2 years. The performance level of the Scout is very high and I feel that it can do just about anything. I never have problems with it as you desicribed with your Michell. My Thorens performance level was almost up to the level of the VPI, but not quite. I had a cheaper cart on the Thorens (Ortofon X5, I believe). It sounded very good for its price range, but there was little magic compared to the VPI and the Thorens would get a little confused on certain passages, where the VPI/Benz does not.

I believe that your Michell is not set up properly since you describe distortion in certain dynamic passages. Based on my experience with my Thorens and VPI, I believe that your Thorens could nearly approach or even match the performance level of your Michell. It will take a lot of work to get the Thorens refurbished and tuned, and match a correct cartridge to whatever arm you go with.

I have also found that my VPI and Benz Glider play whatever is on the record. If it is a rather pedestrian recording with lazy engineering, then it sounds like a rather average recording. This of course means the playback will have little, if any, vinyl 'magic'. However, if it is a great recording, then it is marvelous. Not all your records will sound great on a good table.
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