Active or passive?

Ive done this demo (passive vs active) many times.  

Active properly executed will outperform passive.   The reasons are many: 1) losses through all those copper coils in the passive crossover 2) losses of power, dampening factor, etc though all that speaker cable at speaker level 3) lack of phase control in passives 4) ability to control phase in active 5) passives requiring one big power amp vs active needing the exact right power for each driver element.

The differences will be mainly heard in improvements in imaging, details, bass definition, and dynamics.

Brad
ATC Consumer/Lone Mountain Audio    

Ive done this demo (passive vs active) many times.  

From your experience which actives do you think are exceptional?

01-19-2020 2:30amIve done this demo (passive vs active) many times.  

Active properly executed will outperform passive.   The reasons are many: 1) losses through all those copper coils in the passive crossover 2) losses of power, dampening factor, etc though all that speaker cable at speaker level 3) lack of phase control in passives 4) ability to control phase in active 5) passives requiring one big power amp vs active needing the exact right power for each driver element.

The differences will be mainly heard in improvements in imaging, details, bass definition, and dynamics. 

Brad
ATC Consumer/Lone Mountain Audio    

Thanks so much Brad.  Great post and what I have heard also when doing the same thing.  I just never had the long time to really do this like you have.  I have heard it with a pair of ATC years ago and then with a German brand who's name I forget.  

Have you ever done this with anything other than your ATC's?  Being that I owned the Vandersteen Treo and now the Quatro's, I think I'm qualified (as a consumer, not a professional) to say similar things.  As Richard V told me, that if I were ever able to afford his new amps that were designed with the Quatro and Cento in mind, that I'd have a fully active speaker (although I would still need a speaker cable that gets in the way,lol).  He has always loved the idea of controlling everything from start to finish (he won't be making a server though as he's an analog dude).

Even in the KEF LS50's it makes a HUGE difference.

Honestly I have not tried a direct AB with passive and active of another brand the same model using the same amps right next to each other. The leaders in active from the pro side are ATC and Genelec, both jumped into active back in the early 80s around the same time so they have a lot of experience. While many view "active" benefits are focused on better/cheaper/matched to the driver amplifiers, I really think it’s the linear phase issue and making sure amps don’t clip for proper dynamics are the key advantages.

I can’t imagine it would not help any manufacturer who adopts the technique. There is nothing magical in the idea of active and no patents in the core idea. I believe everything will be active in the future.
Brad

As to why there aren’t more active speakers available, I think it’s due to the flexibility of picking your own amp at your comfortable price point and also being able to upgrade in the future. So you have both flexibility of sound characteristics as well as being able to spend less upfront with the option to improve your system later as funds allow. But that’s just my guess.

A pretty good guess and something Andrew Jones pointed out yesterday in his presentation to the San Francisco Audio Society. He admitted the amplifiers in his active speaker design takes away consumer flexibility, but he also talked about the benefits from a design perspective, especially removing the crossovers you that do nothing but color the sound with their "EQ". The presentation also included a demonstration of two ELAC Navis active designs, a book shelf and floor stander, neither use DSP in the design. Both were quite good and are priced very reasonably at approximately $2500 and $4500 respectively per pair.