There are a lot of variables. You can say that again, Boo Boo! That’s why people need to use the out-of-phase track method. Because that method ELIMINATES most of the variables and is guaranteed to ALWAYS find the ABSOLUTE BEST speaker positions. Hel-loo! That means it IS a set rule, as you say. It’s all the other methods that are not set rules. I guess I must not have been clear the other fifty times I described this method. 😃 Thick as a brick. 🧱 Caveate: Most rooms are in such bad shape acoustically that many people will have difficulty hearing the “sound coming from all around you” with the system in reverse polarity. It takes a lot of effort before that happens. As Bob Dylan says at the end of his records, good luck to everyone. I never said it was going to be easy. That’s why they call it a hobby. 🤗 Yes, I know, your system sounds fabulous!
Adjusting speaker positioning. What, if anything, to expect?
I am going to adjust my Magico A3’s positioning a little bit to try to optimize their performance and the listening experience. Due to the logistics of the room they’re in, there’s only a limited amount I can move them. I’ll describe the room and what I can do within those limitations. I’m wondering what improvement I might be able to achieve with adjusting positioning.
The room is approximately 14’ x 22’. There is a high vaulted ceiling. about 15’ at it’s peak centered in the room on its horizontal axis. Picture how kindergarten child draws a house. That’s the shape of a cross section of the room and vaulted ceiling.. The speakers are located about 8’ apart centered on the long wall. The front of the A3’s are only out 22" from the wall, the rear of the speakers only 9" from the wall. That can’t be helped. The prime listening position is on a couch about 10’ out from and facing the same wall, also centered. The components are on shelves centered and built into the same long wall the speakers are on. There are some other furnishings, and books above built-in cabinets, line most of the other three walls.
I can move the speakers about a foot farther apart or closer together, and I can change their toe-in. What changes, if any, might I be expecting or hope to achieve moving the speakers within these limited parameters? Could the sound-stage be affected? I’m not sure what the sound-stage should be like anyway. Should it extend to the left or right outside the speakers, or be mainly between the speakers? Right now depending on the recording the vocals and instruments are usually between or no further apart than the actual speakers. Could the treble, midrange, or bass response be augmented or diminished depending on positioning? Are there any other factors that may be affected by positioning alone? Thank you for any guidance and please feel free to ask any questions. Thanks,
Mike
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I think Geoffkait is right about using a software for the speakers and for the room, in Foobar 2000 it is a component : Mathaudio room E.Q. 2.7.6. We need to buy a mic... But I had not used it, I will test it this summer... Anyway others are right that some results by trials and errors using ears can gives good result...The immersive imaging I had at my 2 listening positions is proof of that...But I think optimal results are impossible without advanced tools... Ears cannot help much to compensate mechanically for example for the interferences between the resonant speakers and the resonant room...Some corrective device must play this role... |
Rego I’ll try your suggestion of moving the couch out of the way and standing a bit from the wall. I can also try having no toe-in just to see what that sounds like. Interesting suggestions to start to get a feel for the sound. Moving the speakers closer together to seven feet apart would be great and an aesthetic gain as well for the room decor, especially as opposed to moving them out to nine feet apart which I was hoping not to have to do. Could you clarify what the word "Baffles" means. Is this another word for speakers or some part of of them. And what do you mean by "decouple the speakers"? The room decor does take precedence and acoustic treatment will not be in play. I’m not thinking there will be any need for any anyway. Thank you for your suggestions. In response to your second post, should I be measuring the distance from the wall from the front of the speaker, rather than the rear as assumed distance from the wall meant? That would be a much more favorable measurement to go by. Geof, the vocals are usually dead center with occasional variation depending on the recordings. I’ll try the chair on wheel out when the couch is pushed out of the was as rego suggested with the desk chair im sitting on rirgt now as I type this reply to you. Miijostyn, thanks for your explanation of imaging. Here’s something I don’t understand about it and why I’m inquiring if the sound stage should extend beyond the current eight feet between the speakers. If you were listening to a live band or orchestra there would be well more than eight feet between the musicians on either end of the stage. That would seem impossible to recreate except in miniature in you living room. Also most studio recordings are done with the musicians separated or partitioned from one other, or recorded completely separately. it would seem the imaging in that case is solely the construct of the producers or sound engineers. Geoffkait, I’ll get hold of an XLO test CD as you suggest. Is it the Sheffield one you are referring to? That name came up when I googled XLO test CD just now. Thanks for the suggestion. That should be helpful. Pragmasi, I could try the switching wires out of phase trick you mention for an experiment. There shouldn’t be any issues with the speakers having equidistant spacing as you mention but thanks for the heads up on that score onhwy6, I will do some experimenting with the positioning. I’m trying to get a clue about what factors should be in play, what I should be looking to accomplish, and what might be going on. I usually am self taught, but there is so much knowledge and experience here on site it would be a shame to not take advantage of what you all know. Needfreestuff, thanks for the tip on measuring between tweeters.I wasn’t sure where to measure from. Before I purchased the Magicos, knowing I couldn’t move them out any further from the wall, I contacted one of their VP’s to discuss this issue. Part of why I chose the A3’s was they are un-ported. The VP said they could go as close to the rear wall as 7" but were best placed 20" out as you point out. One day I hope to add a separate Music Room to the house were they can be better situated to avoid the bass and mid-range issues you cited. I could move them farther out now, but I’d have to vault over them to get to the rooms on the other side of the house. Tablejockey, yes life is filled with compromises. Maybe one day I’ll get that music room built. I still have some old papers on room acoustics from Klipsch from their "Dope from Hope" series copied fifty years ago on dealing with how to design that music room. It’s on my bucket list, just like getting an expensive stereo system was. I’ve made that one come true, so who knows. Mahgister, sounds like you should come over and set my system up. I’ve a big Federal style library table to deal with in the listening room, just like the desk you ’ve had to deal with. And with room treatments out of the question. for aesthetic reasons I’ve that to deal with also. Sgordon. thanks for the practical advice and warning about no cheating. It makes sense to use familiar recordings too. I’ll do that. Thank you all for so many well thought out and helpful responses. I’m looking forward to utilizing your ideas as best as possible. Mike |
The XLO TEST CD is not to be confused with Sheffield. This what it looks like, https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192758379171 |
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